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Premier boosted work?

I have a Premier boosted 6.5X20 EFR that's been boosted and a custom dot installed. I purchased it like this and it was on an Anshutz Shilloutte rifle. I noticed one day that it would act funny when I was going back and forth shooting the different distances. so I locked it in the paded vice and focused it on a grid paper. low and behold it doesn't track for beans!!!

So now that Premier has been snubbed by Leupold of vis versa how do I get this thing fixed?????????????

RT
 
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I have several Premier/Leupolds. When Leupold stabbed Premier in the back I called Premier to ask how that would effect the owners of Leupold scopes that they modified in the past. They assured me that their guarantee still would be honored on all of their past products.

Leupold also stated that they would honor their guarantee on any of the Premier modified scopes that were done before a certain cut-off date. I'm pretty sure that the press release dealing with this is still somewhere on Leupolds website.

Now comes the fun part - A good friend who owns a VXIII that he purchased new from Premier with one of their multi-dot aiming reticles called Leupold's customer service dept. last week to inquire as to the cost of changing its elevation turret. As soon as he mentioned Premier Reticle the young lady who was helping him cut the conversation short and transfered him to a supervisor. The supervisor was very defensive and not at all helpful, repeating over and over that they could change his elevation turret but there would be no warranty on their work. My friend is a retired L.A. County Deputy Sherrif who has years of dealing with people under his belt. He told me that he did not get the "warm and fuzzies" from this experience at all, and that he was just going to sell the scope and buy a Nightforce.

Given enough rope Leupold under its new management team will do an excellent job of hanging itself :mad:
 
"Given enough rope Leupold under its new management team will do an excellent job of hanging itself ."

Having delt with leupold on their warranty service for a boosted Siebert leupold 32X scope in the last year my advice is to talk to Premier first. Then call Wally Siebert : hwsieb@yahoo.com

http://www.benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47149

http://www.benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48814


Nuff Said.

Glenn
 
From the Premier site; As of Jan 1 2008:
Leupold Scope Owners - We no longer upgrade or customize Leupold scopes. All inquirers concerning scopes that were upgraded by Premiere Reticles in the past and any new custom reticles needs for Leupold scopes should be addressed by Leupold. Unfortunately there are no exceptions.
Looks like they've totally washed their hands of all of their previously modified scopes also.

I have 4 - Mark4 16x's so I guess I'm out of luck!!
 
billmo said:
SB, What was the deal with Leupold and Premier anyway? I never heard much about that situation. Bill

Bill,
I'll try to be as brief as possible, but first I'll need to go over a bit of past history.

Years ago, when all of this first started, Leupold did not offer any variable scopes over 10X and any fixed power scopes over 24X. Target shooters recognized the superior quality of Leupold scopes, but wanted more magnification and a broader choice of reticles. Leupold wouldn't make these scopes, citing the "relatively small market and low demand" as a reason.

Along comes Dick Thomas, founder of Premier Reticle in Winchester VA. Premier was in the business of making custom target and hunting reticles at the time. Dick answered shooters demand for higher powered Leupold target scopes by power boosting Leupold's factory offerings. Target shooters ate them up, and they were so successful that by 1983 Leupold started making their own higher powered scopes beginning with the M8 36X fixed power and the VariX-III 6.5-20X models. The rest was history.

Many target shooters wanted even higher magnification along with the other custom features that Premier Reticle continued to provide to them. You might say that Dick Thomas and Premier Reticle put Leupold on the map as a major manufacturer of American-made target scopes at that time, and the two companies continued to grow together. Leupold was selling more scopes and Premier was able to offer more and more custom features for these scopes. They had an excellent working relationship, and if a shooter wanted a Leupold scope with features that the factory couldn't,or wouldn't) provide he was referred to Premier. Both companies honored each others warranties, and everybody was happy. In effect, Premier Reticle had become Leupold's unofficial Custom Shop. Both companier prospered.

Around the mid-1980's the US Army was in the market for a scope for its new M24 sniper rifle. Several bids to compete for the contract were put out. At first the Army wanted their own version of the Unertl USMC Sniper 10X scope, but John Unertl refused to put in his bid. Some say it was because Unertl didn't want to take the risk and go into debt to expand his factory. It was all he could do at the time to meet his USMC contract production demands. Others say it was because he felt that the Army snubbed him during WWII and he was holding a grudge.

In any case, Leupold decided to go after the Army contract and won it with their M3 Ultra 10X scope. The only fly in the ointment was that the Army specs required that their scope be equipped with a Mil-Dot reticle, which Leupold was not prepared to make at the time. Leupold turned to Premier reticle, and Dick Thomas made all of the Mil-Dot reticles that went into the Army contract M3 Ultra scopes. The Ultra scopes eventually morphed into the Mk4 lineup, and Leupold started making its own Mil-Dot reticles for these scopes. It could be said that Dick Thomas was a major player in Leupold's success in the military market.

Then the skies started to get cloudy for the Leupold/Premier Reticle relationship. There were calls for an improvement to the conventional Mil-Dot reticle, because while it worked pretty well it still had its flaws. Dick Thomas responded by designing and patenting,or copywriting?) his own new version that he named the Generation II Mil-Dot. A great imporvement! It was an immediate success, and sales of Leupolds factory installed standard Mil-Dot scopes dropped a little as Premier's Gen II reticle became more and more popular.

At the same time Leupold was going through a major management shakeup. Their stockholders wanted more profit, and hired a new President who was instructed to aggressively cut costs and increase the bottom line. Leupold attempted to "steal" Premiers Gen II reticle and offer it as an option from their own newly expanded Custom Shop without paying Premier any fees or royalties for its use. A court battle ensued, with Premier winning. In fact, I believe that a Forum member was instrumental in helping Dick Thomas defend his patent in court. He'll speak out about this if he feels like it;)

All of this resulted in bad blood between Leupold and Premier, but for the time being it was business as usual. Things really hit the fan however, when the USMC put out a call for bids on a new variable scope,with a Gen II style reticle) to go with its new M40A3 sniper rifle. Schmidt & Bender beat out Leupold for the new USMC contract with its 3-12x50mm PMII tactical scope. These scopes are shipped in pieces to Premier in Winchester, VA where they are assembled and the Gen II reticle is installed before being forwarded to the Marines.

Obviously this really ticked Leupold off, and they issued a press release severing all ties with Premier Reticle without even giving Premier any warning. Leupold stated that while they would honor the warranty on Premier modified Leupold scopes made up to that date, they wouldn't warranty any made after then. They even refused to sell Premier any parts to allow them to continue servicing Leupold scopes. All of this while Dick Thomas lie dying on an operating table during a heart transplant.

Although Premier had a small stock of Leupold parts that would allow them to meet their warranty obligations for the time being they could no longer work on any Leupold scopes in the future. It looks to me as if they must have run out of parts if they're no longer able to warranty their old products. Too bad for us shooters.

For all of the above reasons, and some others that I haven't mentioned, I will not purchase any Leupold products as long as the situation goes unchanged. Ya'll do whatever you think is right. It's still a free country,for the time being).

Sorry for the extra-long post, but remember .....you asked me :)
 
The last contact with Premier,their policy is to warranty any scope that they did custom work on,repair any mechanical failure). But they will not make any reticle changes to past Premiere products, or takein any new work. If you own a Premier product, Leupold will not touch it, even for PAY. I have been there with both companies. I dont know what the pissing contest is between the two, but Leupolds failure to stand behind their warranty, or the fact that you cant get them make a reicle change for pay, absolutely sucks. I sold the last Premier I bought, because I couldnt find anyone that would make a reticle change in a Variable power scope. If anyone has a source for Variable scope reticle work,KNOWN FACT)please let me know.
 
Larry,
How did you arrive at the fact that Leupold won't touch a Premier modified scope at any price? I'm not doubting your veracity, but several shooters,myself included) have gotten several different answers from Leupold on this subject when questioning their people on the customer service line by phone. I don't think that the right hand knows what the left hand is doing over there. It looks like they've got a bunch of low paid telephone answerers in customer service instead of people who are knowledgable about their products and policies.

I just sent an e-mail to their corporate headquarters in an effort to get a definative answer on the subject - in writing! I'll post if I get any results.
 
Thanks for the insight SB. I had no idea what was going on with that deal. But, from what I can gather from this info here, Leupold is not acting responsible at all. It sounds like a raw deal to me. Just my opinion. Bill
 
Spotck Billy
I contacted leupold by phone and told the person that I had a Premier scope that I wanted a reticle changed from Ist to 2nd plane. I was told to send it in. I got a call from the billing dept wanting credit card info, that my scope was ready to be shipped. That tranaction was completed. The following day I get a call from, I quess the custom shop wanting to know what I wanted done to my scope. I told him he must be confused that my scope was repaired and I had paid and it was ready to ship. He tells me that nothing has been done and that nothing was going to be done, because there is no warranty. I told him I didnt expect it to be under warranty and That I had already paid for the work. He tells me that they will not work on any Premiere product for any reason. I did get my money back,but was out shipping expense one way. I put a call in to the CEO, but made no contact, but he did return my call several days later, when I wasnt home. I never bothered to call back.
 
Larry,
Interesting! Leupold scopes with a first focal plane reticle are rare, in fact there are only one or two,the last time I looked) in their lineup that do not have their reticles positioned in the second focal plane. You could probably sell it over on Snipers Hide and make enough money to get what you want.

Also, I was under the impression that FFP Leupolds couldn't be converted to SFP and vice versa. Please enlighten me :)
 
Catshooter,
Thank you for filling in the holes in my narrative. I was hoping that you would step in and add the details :)

And isn't it a cryin' shame that as of this time nobody will work on our Premier modified Leupold scopes. I haven't had any problems with mine as of yet. Here's hopin'.
 
Spotck Billy. I may have discribed my last Premier scope incorrectly. The reticle changed size w/the power, and I wanted it to remain a constant size regardless of power setting. I'm not sure as to first or second plane on this. At any rate, I couldnt get it done at either premier or leupold, so I sold the scope. I never got a reply from anyone with information as to someone in the business that can do reticle work on a Variable Premier/Leupold. INQUIRING MINDS NEED TO KNOW !!!
 
CatShooter,
I'm not blaming Premier. I realize that Leupold is behind the problem. It's just that I was very disappointed when I heard that Premier was put in that position by Leupold. I won't buy any new Leupold products unless all of this changes. Unfortunately I doubt that it will.

I very recently re-visited Premier's website and was surprised to see that they no longer are the US Military & LE distributor for Schmidt & Bender. Now I understand that they're working up a deal with Zeiss! You got any heads-up on that?

You know what they say about inquiring minds ;)



Larry,
That clears it up for me :) Now it makes more sense, but I still wonder about Leupolds ability to change a SFP to a FFP scope even if it's not a Premier mod.

FYI, in a first focal plane reticle the reticle size remains constant as the magnification changes. The opposite holds true for a scope with the reticle positioned in the second focal plane.

As I see it, the advantage to having the reticle positioned in the first focal plane is that you can use its rangefinding feature,Mil-Dot, etc.) at any magnification. The distances between the dots,or stadia) remain the same. The disadvantage to this reticle positioning is that,for most scopes) the reticle appears too heavy at long range and makes precise aiming more difficult.

I haven't been able to find anybody who will work on a Leupold/Premier variable scope either. Bill Ackerman at Optical Services does power boosts and reticle changes on fixed power Leupolds. I know that he won't do a power boost on a variable, but haven't asked him if he would do a reticle change on one.
,915)269-9608

Bill's an honest guy and does good work, but one caveat about Bill's power boosts on Leupolds - he hasn't been successful performing them on the side focus models. Ask me how I know :,
 
I have one Premier scope, and two 36s and two 24s that I would like to have 1/8 min dots installed in, and since Leupold wont work on the premier, I had rather send them all to one place, if I knew someone who would work on the Variable.
 
CatShooter,
Thanks for the correction. I knew the difference but got it ass-backwards in the description when I posted it. My bad. I hope that my post didn't add to anyone's further confusion.:o

Larry,
Just give Ackerman a call at the number I provided. He doesn't have a website. It sure won't hurt to ask, and if it doesn't pan out all that you'll be out is a ohone call.
 
Spotck Billy I have a number for B. Ackerman, it may be completely wrong or outdated, but have never tried it. Is yours current?? the one I have is 505-589-3833
 
LarryDScott said:
Spotck Billy I have a number for B. Ackerman, it may be completely wrong or outdated, but have never tried it. Is yours current?? the one I have is 505-589-3833

Larry,
I have his business card right here. He gives two phone numbers on it. One is,915)269-9608 and the other is,505)589-3833.

The last time that I called him was early last summer. I believe that I used the 505,New Mexico) area code number. The 915 area code is for El Paso, TX. I've no idea why it's on his card, but it's in a prominent place just above his address. His e-mail address is oscscope@aol.com
Mailing address is Optical Services Co., P.O. Box 1174, Santa Teresa, NM, 88008

Please post and let us know if he'll do a reticle change on a variable Leupold.
 

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