Precision machinist level

[TaperPin]

To level a lathe and help in rebuilding it I always thought the Starrett 98 was pretty sensitive (.005” per 12”), and the $1000 199z would be nice (.0005” per 12”), but too expensive for a hobby machinist.

The local classifieds are fun because we have a lot of motor heads and a boom in manufacturing so some good quality measuring equipment shows up. I’m assuming industrial machine setup is done today more with sensitive electronic levels, or the guy I bought this Mitutoyo from would never have sold it for the cost of a steak dinner.

Going to another decimal point is something I’ve looked forward to, but it’s not all roses. Holy smokes this thing is humbling - .00024” per 12”. If you think your lathe is level, or the bed doesn’t sag under it‘s own weight, then you’ve been missing out! It will turn a smile upside down the first time it’s used, but a person gets over it and moves on - like getting a new eye glass prescription combined with brighter lights and seeing every spec of dirt in the shop. It’s so ridiculously sensitive that it’s almost unusable for general purpose leveling that the Starrett 98 is so good at.

When you find one and bring it home don’t say I didn’t warn you!

 

[WSnyder]

I have several Starrett 98’s in different lengths but for real precision stuff I have an old Scherr Tumico that comes out.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Or you could make a cut and twist the bed until theres no taper in the cut. No level needed.

 

[DShortt]

Is bed sag actually affecting your product?

First question to answer there.

 

[Infrequent Shooter]

I have several Starrett 98’s in different lengths but for real precision stuff I have an old Scherr Tumico that comes out.


View attachment 1497076

I buy old tools whenever I can, and use them every eighteen months! Beautiful. used tools can be a steal. My GF has no clue. great buy on Mitutoyo.

 

[WSnyder]

Is bed sag actually affecting your product?

First question to answer there.

Doing barrel work? Absolutely not
Now when it comes time to level a big cnc machining center I’ll pull out that precision level and then we’ll make some test cuts

 

[TaperPin]

Is bed sag actually affecting your product?

First question to answer there.

It‘s easy to work around the short comings of my old lathe, but it was a shock I could measure flex in the bed with this level just from the weight of the carriage going from one end to the middle.

 

[TaperPin]

I buy old tools whenever I can, and use them every eighteen months! Beautiful. used tools can be a steal. My GF has no clue. great buy on Mitutoyo.

When I die, my wife will have a yard sale and sell every tool and machine for $1. Lol

 

[Sniperhandle]

When I die, my wife will have a yard sale and sell every tool and machine for $1. Lol

The best plan is to outlive your wife, Which I have managed to do. I do kind of miss the old Battleaxe though.

 

[akajun]

The 98z series are all you need and frankly want for leveling a lathe or mill. The 199 is for scraping in a mill or working on highly sensitive equipment in temperature controlled environment. You’ll chase your tail all day leveling a manual lathe with one.
That said Alex is right
You should fully get the twist out with test cuts on large dia material. The level just gives you a starting point

 

[TaperPin]

The 98z series are all you need and frankly want for leveling a lathe or mill. The 199 is for scraping in a mill or working on highly sensitive equipment in temperature controlled environment. You’ll chase your tail all day leveling a manual lathe with one.
That said Alex is right
You should fully get the twist out with test cuts on large dia material. The level just gives you a starting point

You’re right - it‘s too sensitive for most things. I‘ve found it to be quite useful, just not for every day projects.

The lathe is lightly used, even though it’s about 105 years old. The bed is quite straight and it cuts fine - I’ve scraped in the headstock and the bed will eventually get refreshed, but it’s not causing any problems. If it wasn’t cutting straight I’d just scrape in the part that needs adjusting, rather than twisting the bed.

What I was referring to earlier was how disconcerting it was to actually see the bed moving with the sensitive level, not that it’s causing any problems. It will bend slightly under the weight of the carriage, and if a leg is levered in to adjust its position the center of the bed will rise and if the leg has outward pressure the center of the bed falls. I’m sure all old lathes are like this, and why benchtop lathes with thin beds have to sit on something other than their own legs. If I don’t get a new lathe I’ll eventually take the legs off and build a more solid base.

 

[akajun]

You’re right - it‘s too sensitive for most things. I‘ve found it to be quite useful, just not for every day projects.

The lathe is lightly used, even though it’s about 105 years old. The bed is quite straight and it cuts fine - I’ve scraped in the headstock and the bed will eventually get refreshed, but it’s not causing any problems. If it wasn’t cutting straight I’d just scrape in the part that needs adjusting, rather than twisting the bed.

What I was referring to earlier was how disconcerting it was to actually see the bed moving with the sensitive level, not that it’s causing any problems. It will bend slightly under the weight of the carriage, and if a leg is levered in to adjust its position the center of the bed will rise and if the leg has outward pressure the center of the bed falls. I’m sure all old lathes are like this, and why benchtop lathes with thin beds have to sit on something other than their own legs. If I don’t get a new lathe I’ll eventually take the legs off and build a more solid base.

lol nothing is truly solid, even cast iron is a floppy noodle to a degree

 

[TaperPin]

lol nothing is truly solid, even cast iron is a floppy noodle to a degree

Yes - everything is rubber. Lol
These first world war 14” x 6’ lathes were inexpensive to build and probably why so many ended up in schools and whatnot after the war. It’s my understanding these were designed to meet government defense contracts for export to Europe, so they are narrow, light weight, mechanically simple, with an oversized tailstock, oversized spindle bearings, and separate drive shaft for turning to save lead screw wear.

 

[Jonnyofalltrades]

To level a lathe and help in rebuilding it I always thought the Starrett 98 was pretty sensitive (.005” per 12”), and the $1000 199z would be nice (.0005” per 12”), but too expensive for a hobby machinist.

The local classifieds are fun because we have a lot of motor heads and a boom in manufacturing so some good quality measuring equipment shows up. I’m assuming industrial machine setup is done today more with sensitive electronic levels, or the guy I bought this Mitutoyo from would never have sold it for the cost of a steak dinner.

Going to another decimal point is something I’ve looked forward to, but it’s not all roses. Holy smokes this thing is humbling - .00024” per 12”. If you think your lathe is level, or the bed doesn’t sag under it‘s own weight, then you’ve been missing out! It will turn a smile upside down the first time it’s used, but a person gets over it and moves on - like getting a new eye glass prescription combined with brighter lights and seeing every spec of dirt in the shop. It’s so ridiculously sensitive that it’s almost unusable for general purpose leveling that the Starrett 98 is so good at.

When you find one and bring it home don’t say I didn’t warn you!

View attachment 1496661

Hah, that's my go to level, love it! I align machines as my day job(and hobby), I would gladly give some tips if you PM me.

I completely disagree with those that say it is a waste of time. A perfectly straight lathe will give you better results, period.
That's coming from somebody who lives and breathes it, so maybe I'm a bit biased.

 

[LVLAaron]

My whatever whatever value machinist level from MSC does the trick.

 

[LVLAaron]

 

[jackieschmidt]

This is what we use at my Shop….