Practice rounds that don't eat up a barrel

[dstoenner]

My last barrel on my 260 F-Class gun made it to 2800 rounds before it started loosing accuracy. I thought that was pretty good. So I had a new barrel ready to go. It is shooting well but I would like to practice more with the rifle but felt it was a trade off of shooting up my barrel compared to being at a match.

Then it dawned on me.

Back a few years ago, I messed up my shoulder and had to look for low power alternative loads for my military 30-06 and 308 rifles. Trail boss was not a good substitute then I read something about IMR SR 4759 or Accurate 5744. I tried both but 4759 worked the best. Was bot low recoil and accurate. Unfortunately IMR has now discontinued the powder but I managed to get 12 pounds of it, so I figured I am set for the rest of my life. I thought about the 260 so I loaded up some trest rounds to take to the range with me to try it out.

Bingo. 23.5 grains of 4759 behind a 100 gn ELD-M bullet was only 1 MOA low at 100 yards. AND it was really accurate. Check this out. This is on a F-Class target scaled to 100 yards shot prone on all of my F-Class equipment.



These will not burn up the leade and are low recoil so you can concentrate on form and results rather than getting pushed around.

Thought I would share the idea with the rest of you. If I every do run out of 4759, 5744 is next best if anybody want to try it.

David

 

[ballisticdaddy]

I have an Anschutz 64R in a biathlon stock that is setup exactly like all the rest of my bolt guns that I use as a trainer. Even with a lighter load the round counts add up quickly when practicing / training.

 

[ballison]

I'm in the middle of the same experiment. I have a 260 that I use for precision matches (a little different that F-Class), and wanted to see if I could extend the barrel life. My match load is H4350, 130AR hybrids, and close to 3000 fps. My practice load is a H4895, 123 Amax, 2680 fps. QuickLoad estimates the pressure of the practice load at 42K psi (really low), and the attached barrel life estimator gives me another 50% of accurate barrel life. FWIW, I'm at 2600+ rounds and it is still accurate enough for my purpose.

 

[dstoenner]

I'm in the middle of the same experiment. I have a 260 that I use for precision matches (a little different that F-Class), and wanted to see if I could extend the barrel life. My match load is H4350, 130AR hybrids, and close to 3000 fps. My practice load is a H4895, 123 Amax, 2680 fps. QuickLoad estimates the pressure of the practice load at 42K psi (really low), and the attached barrel life estimator gives me another 50% of accurate barrel life. FWIW, I'm at 2600+ rounds and it is still accurate enough for my purpose.

I have down loaded H4895 in 308 with good results for my 308 M1 Garand. It is still a lot more pressure than 4759. I would estimate that I am getting maybe 2100 fps. I may try some downloaded rounds with H4895. Never say never

My match load with 130 hybrids is 3020 so we are close in what we are doing. My new barrel is 30 inches which helped me get another 100 fps more on both my 130 and 140 loads.

David

 

[IdahoSharpshooter]

why not put your old barrel back on for practice? That way you are practicing with the load you will shoot in competition.

 

[dstoenner]

why not put your old barrel back on for practice? That way you are practicing with the load you will shoot in competition.

It was at 100 yards that I started seeing the inconsistencies as I was doing some testing. So I screwed on the new barrel and they were all gone once I got a few rounds down the tube to get it broken in. Besides taking apart my Eliseo stock and pulling the action is not a simple procedure.

David

 

[IdahoSharpshooter]

Bummer, that. My idea would have worked otherwise...

 

[slm9s]

if you're in WA i have some SR4759 I'd sell for cheap!

 

[dstoenner]

if you're in WA i have some SR4759 I'd sell for cheap!

Sorry, North Carolina. I still have 9 lbs myself

David

 

[NickB1075]

That's great, I played with some reduced loads for my Palma rifle for a while. Then built a rimfire rifle set up almost exactly like my Palma rifle. Also shooting the rimfire at 100 yards has helped me a great deal with reading wind and conditions. With the reduced 308 I was really just practicing position.

Nick

 

[Will Henry]

That's great, I played with some reduced loads for my Palma rifle for a while. Then built a rimfire rifle set up almost exactly like my Palma rifle. Also shooting the rimfire at 100 yards has helped me a great deal with reading wind and conditions. With the reduced 308 I was really just practicing position.

Nick

I use 35 of 3031 with a 108 in my 6.5x55 Silohuette rifle. Gives about 2700 fps and works well for chickens, pigs, and turkeys. I use 140's for rams. Accuracy is great, recoil is light, and barrel life should be good. I have never considered using a light load in the "F" class guns. WH

 

[expiper]

OP,,,,using anything other than the "real thing" to practice is like Jimmy Johnson practicing in his family car to save putting miles on his race car !!!???.....some folks even shoot sighters with culls and odd ball rounds...if it doesnt hit like the ammo that you are going to use on the record target you are just tricking yourself,,,,dont fall into the myth of the cost of a bbl.....the most valuable thing we have is our time....dont waste it on anything other than rounds that will show what will happen on the target ....Roger

 

[Sheldon N]

I've been looking at doing the same thing. One other factor I've been considering is the burn temp of the powder. That has me looking at XBR8208 for the Dasher since it burns cooler than H4895. Load down around 50k PSI and throw charges on a progressive press to make it low effort. We'll see how it goes once I get things rolling.

 

[dstoenner]

OP,,,,using anything other than the "real thing" to practice is like Jimmy Johnson practicing in his family car to save putting miles on his race car !!!???.....some folks even shoot sighters with culls and odd ball rounds...if it doesnt hit like the ammo that you are going to use on the record target you are just tricking yourself,,,,dont fall into the myth of the cost of a bbl.....the most valuable thing we have is our time....dont waste it on anything other than rounds that will show what will happen on the target ....Roger

Roger,

I sort of understand where you are coming from but I do have a different slant on it. A lot of guys have a 22 LR that is set up just exactly like their big gun. I am retired and don't have the funds to do that sort of thing. I also don't believe that practicing with these low recoil rounds and never shooting the real thing and then go to a match is as you state a recipe for disaster.

What I always do is keep 20 to 25 of my loaded match rounds from the batch of 100 for going to the 100 yard range and getting a chrono on the barrel as it is now and then practicing on 1 MOA targets. But instead of using the in between time full power loads for practice I am going to use these low recoil loads to work on form and keep the muscles used to the position. I have not shot prone F-Class that much, not like I have shot NRA HP matches and practice that it all feels comfortable and like old hat. It has taken me a lot of experimenting with equipment to get all the right stuff set up the way I want it. Even now I am not for sure.

I also agree with you that when I go to a match, I take the very best rounds I can produce to the line for sighters and for record. The only culls are the 2 rounds they let us put into the berm to foul the barrel. And they are of the same bullet, case and powder of the other rounds.

David

 

[4xforfun]

OP,,,,using anything other than the "real thing" to practice is like Jimmy Johnson practicing in his family car to save putting miles on his race car !!!???.....some folks even shoot sighters with culls and odd ball rounds...if it doesnt hit like the ammo that you are going to use on the record target you are just tricking yourself,,,,dont fall into the myth of the cost of a bbl.....the most valuable thing we have is our time....dont waste it on anything other than rounds that will show what will happen on the target ....Roger

Who is Jimmy Johnson?

 

[dstoenner]

As a follow up on these low recoil loads. After my initial sucess with the SR4759 powder and 100 gn ELD-Match bullets, I loaded up 50 more for practice. Also based on a prior posting in this thread, I also loaded up 19 more using 28.0 H4895 loads. Last night was my time at the range to start practicing position for an upcoming 1000 yard match. So all of this testing was done from prone and using my Atlas bipod with sand bag rear, just like I would shoot in competition.

I decided to test the H4895 loads first on a clean barrel. I used 4 shots as sighters to get centered up, then shot 3 of my standard 1 inch 10 ring, 1/2 inch X ring practice targets. I shot, 50-4X and thought this is going well but it was a loose group all over the 10 ring. Targets 2 and 3 where even looser at 49-3X each.

Then I pulled out the 50 rounds of 23.5 SR4759. It took a bit to get the barrel fouled and the groups to not to drift. But once that happened then the last 5 targets were 50-3X, 50-4X, 50-4X, 50-3X and a 10 shot group of 100-5X. All of these groups were tighter than the H4895.

I know that unless you have some SR4759 in your stockpile it is no longer made but, at least for me, it is definitely more accurate on low recoil loads. This is now the second gun I use SR4759 with with great results. My other gun is a 1903A3.

David

 

[M14AMU]

If you don't use the same load....at the same distance you'll be shooting in comp....you may as well be out behind the barn 'choking your chicken'!!

 

[dstoenner]

If you don't use the same load....at the same distance you'll be shooting in comp....you may as well be out behind the barn 'choking your chicken'!!

I respectfully disagree with your statement.

1) In a prior post I said that these are not my only practice rounds. Before a match I do take the full power match loads and practice with those.

2) If full power loads are the only ones that work, then why do so many also practice with 22LR? My answer to that is that if you can have exactly the same action/stock/scope in 22LR then what you are then doing is muscle memory/visual memory training without upsetting the body so badly with heavy recoil. This allows you to put more rounds down range testing different techniques and looking for consistency.

I am 68 right now and want to keep shooting for some years to come. In this particular case I am shooting my F-Class rifle and while I can tolerate 60 rounds on match day, I pay for it that night and for the next few days. I also don't have another 3500+ dollars to make an exact duplicate of my F-Class gun in 22LR. While I have a 40XB it is not as accurate at 100 yards as this gun with either my full power loads or these low recoil loads. I also do not have access to a range longer than 100 yards when it isn't match day. Boy do I wish I could even shoot 300 yards.

So for the price of some bullets(which cost less per bullet than my Eley Tenex or RWS R50 per bullet) I get to practice between matches with these loads and I am not unduly wearing out the barrel. At this rate, I am going to get a few more years out of this barrel and when it is gone, I am going to a 6MM Dasher with 105 Hybrids or whatever great bullet is there in a few years.

If you want to only practice full power loads, have at it. For some of us that want to take different routes, I wanted to share what I have found out. To each his own.

David

 

[lawman29]

I am going to a 6MM Dasher with 105 Hybrids or whatever great bullet is there in a few years.

Great idea, do it sooner rather than later... I shot a 6br all last year at 600 and 1k (you do give up a lot at 1k...). A 6br is all you need for 600 (no bang, they just go pop...). I did upgrade mine to a 6 dasher this year as I'm using it at 1k also...

 

[ckaberna]

Hey y'all, figure out what works for you and stick with it. Right. If everyone on the net was exactly the same what would be the point of competition?
My opinion....