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Powder measures

Gentlemen
I started precision reloading abut 12 months ago.
I weight and dispense the powder with RCBS ChargeMaster, which is great, and I know every cartridge has 45.3 grains (etc) of powder.
But it is PAINFULLY SLOW.
So my question is how is how good are the powder measures? Can they be as precise as the ChargeMaster scale and trickle?
Thanks, all help is appreciated.
 
here is some info on how to speed it up

http://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-reviews/speed-up-your-rcbs-chargemaster/

here is some more

http://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-reviews/digital-powder-dispensers-part-one/

http://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-reviews/digital-powder-dispensers-part-two/
 
I have a Harrell, which arguably may be the best made, or certainly the equal of the best made. With BALL POWDERS it is right on the money! However, after that it is all down hill. SSC powders are pretty good but still go past + - a tenth of a grain, and the larger the kernel, the worse it gets... I set my Harrell to dump about 3 / tenths grs. less powder than what I want and trickle up. I have a A&D FX 120I which measures very accurately down to + - 0.02grs of powder. That is as fast as I can go. I don't know if it is quite fast enough for your tastes but it is what it is..
 
If you have an extra three grand laying around you could buy a Prometheus. It is fast and very very consistent.
 
I have owned a harrell's, lee, and redding br. The least accurate was the harrell's, and the best was the redding. I throw extruded powders only. I think the harrell's may work better with ball powder.
 
From what I've gathered, this question depends on your shooting discipline.

Based on speed alone.....
Short range BR and varmint hunting - Harell's thrower
medium and large game Hunting - Lee thrower (or redding, hornady, etc)
Anything long range (600yds+, hunting, BR, etc) - any thrower (used to throw a short charge and trickle up) Accurate/consistent scales are needed for good long range ammo. The process is slower when loading for LR.

With that said, you'll find arguments for and against everything I've just mentioned.
People win LR matches with their CM's only (although most that use it verify the charge on higher-end scales). I'd look into eric32's post about adding some speed to the unit you have...
 
lets start with some basics.
the charge master is PLUS or MINUS 0.1......so no they are not all 45.3.....some are .2 and some are .4.......it is the limits of the tool.....some could be 45.16 and some 45.44.......
having said that depending on the powder, the charge master is a good tool.
the most popular powder in short range br is vv n133. in a harrells powder thrower it runs plus or minus 0.3.....ouch...
been there done that still have it.
if you want precision it will take time.
the gempro 250 is a very good tool for most and not expensive.....0.02
then there is another thread, you will have to chase for another more expensive electronic scale that is plus or minus 0.02...$600 or so.

the real issue is what PRECISION does your shooting require ??
i have the time and most my loads are done to plus or minus 0.03.......
warbird2006 said:
Gentlemen
I started precision reloading abut 12 months ago.
I weight and dispense the powder with RCBS ChargeMaster, which is great, and I know every cartridge has 45.3 grains (etc) of powder.
But it is PAINFULLY SLOW.
So my question is how is how good are the powder measures? Can they be as precise as the ChargeMaster scale and trickle?
Thanks, all help is appreciated.
 
warbird2006: As said many times above, rotating drum powder measures and extruded powders were never meant for each other (like oil and water).

I've tried many, including what I was told was the "best of the best", the Harrell's. No matter what methods I tried, including following the telephone advice from the maker, I could get as much as + or- .2. When throwing N133 that would be from 28.3 to 28.7, for my needed load of 28.5.

For ball powders, yes, they do work very well, but when throwing extruded and you feel the drum stick when you're trying to smoothly rotate it, you can bet that charge will be a bad one. Throw it back into the can and start over.

I've also tried numerous electronic scales and chargers and found myself spending more time setting them up, calibrating, etc., only to have them drift, some constantly.

Finally returned to the system that I began using in 1960: a good old very accurate, mechanical beam scale. Takes me about 15 minutes to weigh 20 charges of any extruded powder. If I do need ball powder, then I use my RCBS Uniflow, that does an excellent job, with that type powder.

The big thing for me is no more frustration with things electronic.
 
There's also the "Lee Dipper" and "Trickler" method. Get a good scale, dip and pour the major portion of the charge and trickle the rest. About as fast as other methods and a lot less expensive. Not as "chic" as the rest but does the job ::)
 
warbird2006 said:
Gentlemen
I started precision reloading abut 12 months ago.
I weight and dispense the powder with RCBS ChargeMaster, which is great, and I know every cartridge has 45.3 grains (etc) of powder.
But it is PAINFULLY SLOW.
So my question is how is how good are the powder measures? Can they be as precise as the ChargeMaster scale and trickle?
Thanks, all help is appreciated.

I have been using a Chargemaster 1500 for over 7 years now, and I like it very much, but one of the things I have noticed right off the bat is that it is slow, if you are simply dispensing charges and doing nothing else. The Chargemaster, like any other "robot" relieves you of boring repetitive, yet exacting tasks and allow you to multitask. Let me explain.

Before the CM, I used to dump a scoop of powder into the pan of my beam scale and then trickle up to level. While I was doing that, I could not do anything else. I also found it faster to just weigh a bunch of loads one after the other and then take a break and seat bullets on the charged cases. Then go back to weighing more charges and so on. The problem with this method is that everything was serial; one operation had to be complete before the other one could start. Also, weighing charges on a beam scale was tedious and you had to make sure you were looking at it the same way every time, it is an analog instrument after all.

After using the CM to charge two cases, it became obvious that a different methodology was in order. First of all, you need to turn on the automatic mode where a charge starts to dispense as soon as you replace the empty pan on the scale. While the first charge was dispensing, I prepare the case to receive the charge by pushing a brush through the neck and fitting the funnel to the case. When the first charge is measured, I take the pan and drop the powder in the funnel and immediately replace the now-empty pan on the scale. While the next charge is being dispensed by the robotic CM1500, I seat the bullet on the first case, do a final inspection on the finished cartridge, put it in the ammo box, take out the next case, brush the neck, install the funnel and usually by that time, the CM has whistled its completed charge at me. I check the final weight, pick up the pan, empty the powder in the funnel, replace the empty pan on the scale and ...

At this rate, I could do about 100 cartridges in about 70 minutes. It was fast and I would be waiting for the CM to complete its charge only every so often.

The charges from the CM were definitely good enough for mid-range and allowed me to win local matches in LR over the years. But I was noticing some events on paper at 1000 yards, that I simply could not explain. So I got a GM-250 and started using the CM to throw short by .1 grains. My suspicions were confirmed. I got my method down using the CM, the GP250 and the Omega trickler just in time for the run-up and the marathon loading session leading up to my trip to Raton. I believe the added uniformity using the Gempro contributed in a big way to my results in Raton, especially when it was all at 1000 yards in the FCNC. It did take 4 times as long to load with this technique but it was worth it. I would charge 50 cases and then seat bullets in them, the come back and do the next 50. It took me 3 days to load 450 rounds for Raton, but they were GREAT rounds.

Now that I have learned a few more tricks here about using the GP250, I can load and seat 100 rounds in about 120 minutes, still longer than with the CM alone, but the consistency of the charge is that the kernel.
 
as long as you physically move the pan with each add......
beam scales with dampners resist movement, cheap electronic scales move in 0.1 steps..and do not step easily on the cheap ones.

amlevin said:
There's also the "Lee Dipper" and "Trickler" method. Get a good scale, dip and pour the major portion of the charge and trickle the rest. About as fast as other methods and a lot less expensive. Not as "chic" as the rest but does the job ::)
 
warbird2006 said:
Gentlemen
I started precision reloading abut 12 months ago.
I weight and dispense the powder with RCBS ChargeMaster, which is great, and I know every cartridge has 45.3 grains (etc) of powder.
But it is PAINFULLY SLOW.
So my question is how is how good are the powder measures? Can they be as precise as the ChargeMaster scale and trickle?
Thanks, all help is appreciated.

I use the CM since a year or so and I use always a -0.2 grain, it may my powder H4831sc but I never achieved a 100% charge on all rounds always +- .x grains. I guess that this is expectable depending on the application.

I know on my rifle I have a +-0.3 window, and the load works just fine.
But if your load is in the lower end or upper end it could cause that you are out of the window while shooting.

If I want to load a precise load I reweight every load again with my grainger scale before finishing the round.
 

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