Like a lot of reloaders on here im sure. I started with a simple rcbs powder measure then went to a bench rest model and now i have the chargemaster combo. After tuning all the other variable ive come to the question. How much benefit can expect to be seen on target going from a rcbs chargemaster to something that can accurately measure to the grain? Im not in the benchrest game or i would just get setup to measure to the grain for piece of mind. Im in the early stages of getting into prs style shooting. Where the shooter is more important then taking your groups from half inch to quarter inch.
powder charge. when is good enough.
- Thread starter chevytruck_83
- Start date
The longer the range, the more critical the powder weight consistency. 100/200 , not likely to see a difference. JMHO, Seymour
Case capacity make more difference. If you have a case that has a Half grain of capacity difference what difference will a tenth of a grain difference of powder make? Larry
RegionRat
Gold $$ Contributor
Just to be clear, I believe you meant to say to the kernal, since a grain would be a big variation.
One way to back into your answer in a very general sense is to estimate the linear velocity/charge difference based on published load data.
Assuming you have a sensitivity goal of some number of inches of vertical dispersion, you would use an extrnal ballistics program to calculate the estimated velocity change to stay within that spread. Then you estimate the powder charge sensitivity for that much velocity change. This isn't exact because of real world behavior being non-linear, but it gives you a general and simple way to estimate levels.
Short of just testing, this would give you a ballpark answer to your question. One good thing that comes from the estimate, is to just load some to that spread and test.
One way to back into your answer in a very general sense is to estimate the linear velocity/charge difference based on published load data.
Assuming you have a sensitivity goal of some number of inches of vertical dispersion, you would use an extrnal ballistics program to calculate the estimated velocity change to stay within that spread. Then you estimate the powder charge sensitivity for that much velocity change. This isn't exact because of real world behavior being non-linear, but it gives you a general and simple way to estimate levels.
Short of just testing, this would give you a ballpark answer to your question. One good thing that comes from the estimate, is to just load some to that spread and test.
Sorry. Yes i ment kernel. I guess i assumed case capacity from one to the next would be identical. Or at least close enough to not matter. I try to use a load that holds the same verticle for say at least .3 grain to eliminate issues. I wasnt sure if being able to load the exact same charge would allow you to run that node that shoots tight but maybe isnt as forgiving. I guess it really is true when they say the more you learn the more you realize you dont know.
You didn't say what distance. If 1000, it is easy to find a rough node that is 1-1/2 grains wide, pick the middle, and go shoot F-class match. If you get a good read on a condition you might break 190, but it wont agg. As many here emphasize, the really good window will be 0.4-0.6 gr wide, and there will be a load in there that will shoot 1-1/2 to 2-1/2", and several others that shoot 4-6". Given the reported accuracy variance of the electronic dispensers, it seems you might want an accurate scale. Then there's maintaining the tune across temp variations. Whole other kettle of fish. Seymour
Prs type unknown distance. Next match is out to 750 but i like to practice out to 1050. I really want to get into prs more so potentially further on rare occasions.
Chevy..Case capacity varies alot. Example: I have 300 Win Mag RWS brass that measures 87.09 gr. h2o average over 20 tested. The same measurement were done on 20 Winchester cases. They averaged 90.6 gr h2o. To achieve the same barrel time and velocity according to QuickLOAD you would have to add 2 more grains to the Winchester cases.
Imo... i kick out some accurate ammo with a charge master... my tools.. and my reutine... i wouldnt say no to shoot one of my rifles against a bench gun 1 on 1...
lots of time spend on the reloading bench tinkering... but hella good ammo can be made with a charge master.. in fact i have two of em..
lots of time spend on the reloading bench tinkering... but hella good ammo can be made with a charge master.. in fact i have two of em..
Chevy, I dispense my charges .3 under, dump on a 10-10-10 scale and trickle to final charge weight. The charge master and other electronic dispensers often drift. Prometheus is the way to go but have seen guys who use it rupture cases after they didn't catch a powder bridge in the funnel.
Always visually inspect the charge before seating a bullet.
The way I do it I keep my loads within .1 grain or as close to that as humanly possible. That is as close as I need them for PRS.
Always visually inspect the charge before seating a bullet.
The way I do it I keep my loads within .1 grain or as close to that as humanly possible. That is as close as I need them for PRS.
I might add that when using Hornady brass I weight sort my cases to with-in 2 grains high to low and keep those segregated for there life. If your using lapua they are normally with-in 2 grains form the factory when from the same lot#. If my ES is below 12 I'm very happy, 15 is acceptable. sometimes it is under 10.
Jim it has nothing to due with case weight. The internal capacity is where the problem is. With my dasher every .02 difference of capacity is one tenth of powder or around 10 FPS. LarryJimSee said:
Lapua40X
California Hunter Education Instructor
OK, here I go again.
Rant:
IMO, with all the variables associated with the reloading process, measuring powder down to the kernel is approaching absurdity. Does everyone measure bullet OAL for each bullet (tip to ogive and base to ogive) and weigh each bullet; ream every flash hole; uniform every primer pocket; seat every primer with the same pressure (which may or may not mean they're at the same depth); measure CBOL to zero tolerance; measure ogive to datum line, scour the inside of each fired case to remove the influences of any carbon debris from the last firing and which obviously affects case capacity? Where does it end? C'mon guys. Dump a pile of powder kernels on the bench and check them with a magnifying glass. They're not all the same. So a "kernel" is not a reliable unit of measure. Load 'em best you can, shoot 'em best you can, relax and enjoy the experience. Heck, after going to all that trouble and having the wind drop your last round out of the X ring to put you in second or third place, all that time and frustration at the bench was a waste.
Rant:
IMO, with all the variables associated with the reloading process, measuring powder down to the kernel is approaching absurdity. Does everyone measure bullet OAL for each bullet (tip to ogive and base to ogive) and weigh each bullet; ream every flash hole; uniform every primer pocket; seat every primer with the same pressure (which may or may not mean they're at the same depth); measure CBOL to zero tolerance; measure ogive to datum line, scour the inside of each fired case to remove the influences of any carbon debris from the last firing and which obviously affects case capacity? Where does it end? C'mon guys. Dump a pile of powder kernels on the bench and check them with a magnifying glass. They're not all the same. So a "kernel" is not a reliable unit of measure. Load 'em best you can, shoot 'em best you can, relax and enjoy the experience. Heck, after going to all that trouble and having the wind drop your last round out of the X ring to put you in second or third place, all that time and frustration at the bench was a waste.
I don't like finishing second and third. To me any thing that makes me shoot better isn't a waste.
Larry
Larry
I appreciate the honest answer lapua 40x. Right now its a whole lot harder for me to get out to the range and shoot (especially past 300 yards) then it is to get a half hr here and there to reload. Plus i enjoy reloading. I dont want to way over complicate it if theres no benefit though either. This is why i asked
OP (original plumber) ,,,I dont piddle and fiddle like some folks do,,,back in 09' before I broke my neck on a 4 wheeler and was still shooting competitively I flew to Sacremento for the NBRSA 600 yd nats.....I opened 3-100 count boxes of Lapua brass (6mm BR) and chamfered the case mouths and visually inspected flash holes etc for defects,,,then loaded them with a known/proven charge of Rx-15 that I had used in 85* weather here at home (WV) using a Culver powder measure (cant give st pt on here ) then seated Berger 105 VLD's (proven lot ) not measured,tipped/weighed to the depth that gave a square mark on the bullet (touching +.012") and let the bolt close without noticable effort,,,,and put them in the gun case with my rifle and went thru TSA insp. and on the plane to sunny CA,,,,I set a NBRSA three target record at that event,,,I had aprox 1" of vertical in my ammo while there,,,,the big problem was keeping the left and right out of it because of the cross wind,,,,Roger
Attachments
That was great shooting. Right now Rodney Wagner is the man. The best I have done is 1.068 all vertical. Larry
chevytruck_83 said:
nah consistency is king - cold days, warm days, rain, fouling, lot changes all go into a good experience or a bad one.
One of the reasons people measure to the kernel is because its easy to do and its one thing eliminated as a variable. It may or may not make a difference but if its the same its unlikely to be "that" thats causing a problem. Thats why I do "stuff" anyways.
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