Shooting a 6BR 1-8 broughton barrel Savage target action, I ran out of CCI BR primers and all I had was CCI 400's. I was using 30.3 grains of Varget and Berger 108 VLD's. I tested the ammo yesterday everything went well "with BR primers". Today from the very first shot I was popping holes in the CCI 400 primers....every single shot. The ammo shot well first string of ten shots were in the X, 10 and one 9. I quit shooting for safety reasons. I adjusted firing pin protrusion and the firing pin wasn't pointed and still popping holes. I pulled the ammo down and everything checks good. I have a handful of BR primers so I'm gonna put everything back the same as today but with the BR primers to see if it happens. I was told the CCI400 primers are softer than its Magnum and BR counterparts just seeing if anyone hand any ideas what it might be before I go test.
Popping holes in primers
- Thread starter OIF/OEF
- Start date
I have never had a problem with CCI 400's at all. Their cup is supposed to be a tad "softer" than the CCI 450's.. However, neither CCI 400's nor the BR-4's or 450's have I ever had a problem. Your load should not be hot! I say "should not" because I have personally never seen a load in that range cause problems. However, EVERY gun is different! Why your rifle "decided" to do what it did AFTER shooting fine the time before, who knows? Just back off and "re-start" your load development again..
^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^ Furthermore, you've probably ruined your firing pin and should inspect the tip under magnification and repair/replace.jlow said:
bigedp51
The CCI400, Federal 200 and Remington 6 1/2 primers are intended for lower pressure cartridges, the primers with cups .025 in thickness are rated for higher chamber pressures.
Remington Small Rifle Primers #6-1/2
Warning:
Remington does not recommend this primer for use in the 17 Remington, 222 Remington, 223 Remington, 204 Ruger, 17 Remington Fireball. Use the 7-1/2 Small Rifle Bench Rest primer in these cartridges.
This 6-1/2 Small Rifle primer is primarily designed for use in the 22 Hornet.
Your problem is a common problem in AR15 forums and the thicker .025 cups are recomended.
Remington Small Rifle Primers #6-1/2
Warning:
Remington does not recommend this primer for use in the 17 Remington, 222 Remington, 223 Remington, 204 Ruger, 17 Remington Fireball. Use the 7-1/2 Small Rifle Bench Rest primer in these cartridges.
This 6-1/2 Small Rifle primer is primarily designed for use in the 22 Hornet.
Your problem is a common problem in AR15 forums and the thicker .025 cups are recomended.
I have experienced the very same problem. I have a Savage Model 12 VLP single shot in 223 Remington that I have been shooting quite a bit since 2005. A good load with it has been 73 grain Berger bullets with Varget powder and CCI BR-4 primers. Last summer I ran out of CCI BR-4 primers and experimented with a few other primers including Federal 205M, Remington 7-1/2, and CCI 400 primers. The load performed well with the Federal and Remington primers, no better or worse than with the CCI BR-4 primers. However, the load pierced/blanked two CCI 400 primers. I have since found more CCI BR-4 primers and have gone back to using them without any problems.
I suspect there is more to this than just a difference in primer cup thickness/hardness. The firing pin hole in the bolt face of my rifle was dished out when new and has seen a lot of use since then which has probably opened the hole even further. The fit between the firing pin tip and the firing pin hole is sloppy resulting in significant craters in any primer. This in conjunction with a firing pin spring that has probably weakened over time would increase the likelihood of a pierced/blanked primer. In my case I believe it was a combination of factors that stacked up to create a problem with CCI 400 primers in my rifle. Chances are my load with these primers would work fine in a custom rifle.
I suspect there is more to this than just a difference in primer cup thickness/hardness. The firing pin hole in the bolt face of my rifle was dished out when new and has seen a lot of use since then which has probably opened the hole even further. The fit between the firing pin tip and the firing pin hole is sloppy resulting in significant craters in any primer. This in conjunction with a firing pin spring that has probably weakened over time would increase the likelihood of a pierced/blanked primer. In my case I believe it was a combination of factors that stacked up to create a problem with CCI 400 primers in my rifle. Chances are my load with these primers would work fine in a custom rifle.
Lapua40X
California Hunter Education Instructor
Some will tell you "your load should not be hot". It might be wise to understand that none of us can make that statement and technically support it. Whether or not your load is "hot" is unique to your rifle, your CTBO relative to your chamber and other factors beyond our personal experience and understanding. For example, my tight chamber 6BR Norma will not handle 30 grains of Varget behind 107 grain Sierras without showing pressure signs; regardless of seating depth. I have to be careful working above 28 grains .... It's a tack driver but it's got its own ideas about what it will handle.
I'm shooting a 6br savage model 12 that I had the firing pin bushed and that will solve your problem......if your load is not too hot..
I loaded 3 with CCI BR primers with the exact same load data and not one blew. I did notice the strikes on the primers looked more cratered than usual, the edges of the area of impact from the firing pin stick out. I will put a different bolt head on as well tonight and do more testing tomorrow. A gentleman by the name of Darrell told me Saturday the firing pin hole could in fact be wollerd out and it didn't take much to make it go south. Gentlemen I cant thank yall enough for the knowledge. I will be using the guidance from the posts and be more cautious when changing components, never would have thought it would make that big of a difference....
Very Respectfully Submitted
Very Respectfully Submitted
If you search you will find a common problem popping up with Savage Rifles cratering primers that is caused by poor firing pin to bolt firing pin clearance and needs to be addressed in some way. Reducing the sloppy fit / clearance is one way and a number of Savage Rifles I know of had this issue but no longer after being sleeved. There are other cures but the point is mainly too much clearance around the firing pin hole, re-shape firing pin, reduce firing pin protrusion are a few I have heard being done but I think the main factor is the sloppy fit.
All problems I know of also happened with thick primer cups like CCI BR4's.
My opinion only, I'm not a Gunsmith.
All problems I know of also happened with thick primer cups like CCI BR4's.
My opinion only, I'm not a Gunsmith.
snowpro440: "If your load is not too hot". You are correct. And if it is a "hot" load, the firing pin can be bushed with the pin diameter turned to .062", that will solve the blanking primers, but then, expect to see loose primers pockets after only a few loadings.
The bushed firing pin acts to control the over-pressure, but the pressure has to be released, and loose pockets are the next "safety valve".
The bushed firing pin acts to control the over-pressure, but the pressure has to be released, and loose pockets are the next "safety valve".
fdshuster said:
Exactly what I found .. My load is close to warm but I just didn't like being at a match and not being able to shoot with a jammed up firing pin so I had mine bushed and all my problems went away. Now have 14 firings on lapua brass and still good primer pockets .
I had similar problems with CCI400 primers in my 223 Marlin X7. Had primer flow and a few pierced cups well below the max load of Varget suggested in Sierra's data sheet for 69 SMK bullets. Velocities were not exceptional and case extraction was normal, but primers showed problems. A switch to Remington 7 1/2s eliminated these symptoms and lets me use my best accuracy powder charge, which is still below the data sheet maximum but above what the CCIs would tolerate. The action is stock - no bushing for the firing pin or any other work other than normal clean and lube.
BigEd nailed it as far as my problems were concerned. The cup on the 400 is thinner and will not take the pressure that the BR primer will.
bigedp51
Smalltruck said:
All the information in the world is written in books and all you have to do is read. (or look at the pictures)
Signed
Attila the AR15 Hun.
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