Pointing Confusion

[REELDOC]

I'm considering the trim and point process. I guess it is probably a mute question but does this process makes weighing bullets pretty much useless? Does the benefit of the process override the weight of the bullets?

 

[KT]

Hi Guys,
I have been reading all postings with interest on "trimming and pointing" bullets. I'm just not clear on the trimming thing. After separating for bearing surface length, my 6mm bullets vary in total lengh, from base to tip, 1.248 to 1.257 on average. I have been trimming about .003 off. This seems to give a nice clean tip for pointing. My question is do I trim all the bullets to 1.245 then point or seperate into groups then minus .003 for each group (ie. 1.257 to 1.254), reset the pointer die the same amount and point?? Then that would bring up another question. Should I just put them all back in the box and shoot or keep them in their respective families to shoot???? I'm thinking that I am getting way too anal on this and was wondering how you guys deal with it.... Thanks, Mike

Mike,
I'm by no means an expert, but this is what I do. I've had pretty good results from it.

I would trim all your bullets to 1.245 like you listed. Then point them. If you find bullets that are shorter than the 1.245 (bullets that don't touch the trimmer) put them in another container for sighters.

I have also found that if I weight the bullets before and after I trim and point, the weight of the bullets(berger) is alot more consistant after trimming. So much that I don't sort bullets by weight anymore. Typically if I found a bullet that was under weight and I measure it the tip would be below my cutoff number.

For your second question. Since you already have them seperated by bearing surface length I would leave them seperated and load them from short to long. The meplats are already uniform from triming and pointing.

Also pay attention to the tips after trimming. I find a few bullets per 100 that have very little material on one side of the tip. I throw them into the sighter bin as well.

Hope that helps.
KT

 

[Dgd6mm]

Mike, I'm learning from this thread also. If you don't mind, I'd like to ask the question, what tools for trimming and pointing do you fella's prefer? I've never trimmed or pointed, but have been giving it some thought.

Don Dunlap

 

[KT]

Don,

I use the sinclair meplat trimmer and the widden pointing system.

I've read alot of good things about the Hoover products too.

KT

 

[searcher]

I'd point first, then trim. When looking at the tips of the bullets, they really are quite jagged and irregular - enough so for a FEW to cause a little deviation on the way to the target. I first tried the Sinclair meplat trimmer which I was entirely unhappy with. A cheap plastic piece of junk in my opinion. I think I threw it away to spare someone else. Shortly after trying yet another and not being completely happy, I pulled out a cheap extra -fine diamond file from my tool box. Holding the LOADED round in one hand, I now just take three LIGHT swipes off the top of each round as I rotate the round in my fingers and keeping the file square to the meplat top as much as possible. This method does NOT provide perfect meplats - but does make them much more uniform and you learn to spot the really bad ones as you are filing - you can see the difference. This method has shown the same level of improvement I was able to obtain using the meplat trimmer - without some of the drawbacks. I think overtrimming is worse that not trimming at all. My results have me believing that anyway. The filing of each bullet does not require that each bullet be brought to the same length (as measure from the ogive to the meplat tip), whereas using the meplat trimmer will require that - if one wants completely concentric tips on 100% of the bullets. Like trimming all cases to length, you have to measure off the crappiest one. I have found, in my own experience, this is not needed. The problem with the meplat trimmer is to get each bullet all "trimmed up", you now have altered the bullet length from ogive-to-meplat tip on a number of the bullets - as they too are not all the same. That causes vertical problems unless you set your meplat trimmer to only make contact on, say, 75% of the bullets, then don't use the 25% in competition. Then, you still have the problem of those that a lot of material that was taken off.

In summary, if point your bullets, then trim ever so slightly - if at all. A small amount with the file will keep you out of trouble dealing with the differences in the bullets the meplat trimmers cause as you are using them to fix something else.

 

[ftrrookie]

Searcher has it right. Whiddens instructions say to Point then trim lightly use steel wool to remove any burrs. The OAL of the bullet is not important. The base to ogive and the weight are the important measurements. Sort by BTO and weight, point, and hit with file, sandpaper, or steel wool to remove burrs and shoot em.
I point, hit with a file then give them a couple of twists in a pad of steel wool. Works great and a lot cheaper than buying a meplat trimmer for each caliber I shoot.

 

[JohnHoover]

My answers to the question is.
1- Sort your bullets one of two ways. Bearing Surface or O-jive to base in piles of .001
2- Take and measure 6-8 bullets in a pile and find the short bullet.
3- Set your trimmer to clean up the meplat 100% on all bullets in that pile.
4-Then set your tipping die to point the bullets.

As far as pointing bullets right out of the box with out sorting is a definite no,no.
Now the question is why measure your bullets OAH and see how much they vary.
Say the first bullet measures 1.250 oah and you set up your die with that bullet.Then the next bullet measures 1.260, you run that bullet in the die and the extra goes somewhere. You start to crush the bullet.

As far as where you see the results it shows up more at the longer distances

If you have any questions feel free to give me a call.

John Hoover 1-814-684-5322

 

[mikecr]

I believe Whidden; POINT, then TRIM.
The important thing here is neither base to ogive, nor nose length,, it's consistent meplat diameter that matters.
You point to extend the nose while closing meplat diameter, then you trim noses to same length -to produce meplats of the same diameter.
Of course same nose length, is w/resp to same datum, which is based on same ogive radius.

It doesn't make sense to trim all your good bullets to the length of your few bad.
It doesn't make sense to cull any bullets on base-to-ogive, until you've determined the specific variant there and then tested, or atleast predicted, the significance in it. With BTO You're looking at base length + Bearing length to ogive radius affected datum(another variant).
When you point and see such a variance in ogive radius to cause big variance in nose length/meplat diameters(possibly causing bad pointing), drop that bullet in the trash can and keep going with the rest. It's just a relative few in a lot.
You could, if you're really going for perfect, compare and cull bullets by ogive radius -beforehand. This, with a BGC.
These bullets would also seat the same amount in necks and be the same actual contact distance w/resp to lands. Add same diameter meplats, and weight, and NOTHING else matters but your tune.

 

[Va Jim]

My answers to the question is.
1- Sort your bullets one of two ways. Bearing Surface or O-jive to base in piles of .001
2- Take and measure 6-8 bullets in a pile and find the short bullet.
3- Set your trimmer to clean up the meplat 100% on all bullets in that pile.
4-Then set your tipping die to point the bullets.

As far as pointing bullets right out of the box with out sorting is a definite no,no.
Now the question is why measure your bullets OAH and see how much they vary.
Say the first bullet measures 1.250 oah and you set up your die with that bullet.Then the next bullet measures 1.260, you run that bullet in the die and the extra goes somewhere. You start to crush the bullet.

As far as where you see the results it shows up more at the longer distances

If you have any questions feel free to give me a call.

John Hoover 1-814-684-5322

John Hoover HMMM I think Ive heard of him before. Just kidding John, Thanks for chiming in.

VA Jim
James Crofts