Please clear this up

[rifleman1]

I sold a Savage action to a fellow member here, we agree on a price and he sent the money.I ASSUMED he knew that all actions and/or firearms have to be sent to an FFL holder. I didnt state it in my ad but I THOUGHT everyone knew that you cant send an action or firearm to an individual. It has to be processed in the buyers name. The buyer has backed out and has asked for his money back, no problem. But he says I sold it under false pretences since I didnt state that it had to be sent to an FFL. Please clear this up.Thank You
mike

 

[rstreich]

It has to be sent to an FFL if it's out of state. I think the various carriers might require it if it's in state also, but I can't remember the details.

So, what is there to clear up? You didn't sell it under false pretenses. You left off a detail in the shipping arrangements that the buyer really should have known. It doesn't make your ad false. You've simply chosen to stay out of jail.

 

[rifleman1]

I sure hope the ex-buyer reads this.Thank you for your input Mr. rstreich.
mike

 

[rayjay]

It's easy to assume that everyone knows that the serial numbered part is considered a firearm and therefore must be shipped to an FFL dealer for transfer to the new owner.

For the knucklehead to claim 'false pretenses' is BS. He is being educated on the LAW. His lack of knowledge doesn't put you in the wrong, it's him that is wrong.

You have two options:

1- Send the money back and relist the item. Least aggravation.

2- Tell him to arrange for an ffl to receive HIS receiver, you will be happy to hold it for him in the mean time. Potential personal satisfaction by making the knucklehead do what he should have done in the first place after you educated him on the laws involved. The downside is you have to put up with corresponding with a dumbass for a much longer period of time.

I bet you don't forget to put in the 'ship to FFL' note in the future It's an unfortunate fact that you have to allow for the lowest common denominator when dealing with john q public.

 

[Forum Boss]

1. I agree that the simplest thing is just to send the money back and relist.

However, it's worth noting that we have written rules now for the classified. Under "Buyers' Duties" it says:

B. BUYERS' DUTIES

2. In the case of the sale of a firearm, Buyers agree to comply with all applicable Federal and local laws, including shipping to an FFL where required.

---

By posting or responding to a classified ad, someone is agreeing to abide by our rules. Therefore someone can't legitimately claimed that you advertised under "false pretenses". It is out standing rule that firearms shipments,where required) must go to an FFL.

 

[mpryne]

That made me smile!

 

[22243win]

I think you better do some more research, an individual can mail a rifle or shotgun. Just call the post office and ask. I know because I went through this last week. UPS will only ship a firearm for repair. According to their rules they will not ship to a FFL for the purpose of sale to an individual. This makes me think a lot more of USPS.

 

[Forum Boss]

Yes an individual can use U.S.P.S. for shipment of a long-gun. But the legal transfer to a resident of another state must be processed through an FFL in the recipient's state.

 

[22243win]

If you sell your rifle to someone out of state and don't go through a FFL it is still legal. This assumes that you are not a dealer. Let's not forget that it is still legal to buy and sell guns at shows. I

 

[rayjay]

BS ! You do not have any idea what the hell you are talking about. Just last week you had to call the post office about shipping a gun and now you are an expert? The batfe makes the rules about firearm transfers and their site has all the REAL info.

 

[rstreich]

22243win, You wouldn't happen to be the buyer would you?

I suggest you spend a little time reviewing the ATF FAQ. Items B3:

,B3) May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State?

A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.

[18 U.S.C. 922,a),3) and 922,b),3)]

and B8:

,B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922,a),2),A), 922,a),3), 922,a),5) and 922,e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

I added some italics to the points you need to pay attention to.