Pits! Tiny Dang Pits!

[chop house]

Savage mdl 12, not abused by shooting or cleaning, has developed very small pits here and there on the edges of the lands - both leading and trailing edges. bizarre in that they are shiny, looking like little molten globs of metal embedded in the steel through the oblique view borescope.

products used over the last 6 months: hoppes benchrest 9, hoppes #9, hoppes elite copper terminator, butchs bore shine, rem action cleaner, and wd-40 or similar. Sparing use of bronze brush, more commonly nylon. never butchs and hoppes in same cleaning session. i don't clean as often as some... maybe every 50 rounds.

another artifact of savage factory barrels, along with the railroad track tool marks?

 

[Someoldguy]

None of my Savage barrels will promote restful sleep if I allow the borescope images to remain in my mind. They generally shoot much better than they look, so I don't worry about it.
How is the rifle performing on the target? This is what I concern myself with.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

your cleaning isnt the problem- its in the barrel's DNA

 

[GrocMax]

Leaving small tiny droplets of cleaning/lubricating liquids in the bores can make a perfect new lapped barrel look horrible thru a scope. Make sure its dry before scoping.

 

[M-61]

Savage mdl 12, not abused by shooting or cleaning, has developed very small pits here and there on the edges of the lands

I'll take a chance here: Have you ever shot a factory made rifle that is more accurate? I ask this without knowing what it is chambered in.
I have a couple of 12's (then bought just action's for a time and then into switch barrels) that are bone factory stock. 308 & 6BR never did anything except check the torque on the action bolts. Both of them have shot the smallest groups at 100 yards that I have shot with a factory rifle ever.I'm not talking about custom anything. Just bought and shot. Maybe I'm lucky or my groups are not that good BUT I don't think either is the case. These things are just plain accurate.
Someoldguy said it well. And I am not looking for an argument here. Just asking the OP a question regarding his opening sentence.

 

[Shynloco]

IMHO, a borescope evaluation of your barrel is useless unless you have grouping, accuracy problems OR a high bullet count. SO if she shoots, forget the borescope eval and go shoot her. My Model 12 6mmbr was the most accurate, over the counter rifle, I've ever bought in my entire 70 yrs of life. That factory barrel shot easily 4000 rds before I retired her. And I couldn't care less what the inside of the barrel looked like because the only reason I switched barrels was the high bullet count and my groups started to open up (from 1's to 3"s consistently @ 100 yds), a sure sign she was tired.

Alex

 

[joshb]

I use my borescope to check for "clean", as in copper and carbon. I listened to the smarter guys, here. I don't look for a perfect Bore. So far, I don't own one.

 

[Jose_Luis_G]

Savage mdl 12, not abused by shooting or cleaning, has developed very small pits here and there on the edges of the lands - both leading and trailing edges. bizarre in that they are shiny, looking like little molten globs of metal embedded in the steel through the oblique view borescope.
Products used over the last 6 months: hoppes benchrest 9, hoppes #9, hoppes elite copper terminator, butchs bore shine, rem action cleaner, and wd-40 or similar. Sparing use of bronze brush, more commonly nylon. never butchs and hoppes in same cleaning session. i don't clean as often as some... maybe every 50 rounds.
Another artifact of savage factory barrels, along with the railroad track tool marks?

Pitting is one of the effects of the powder burning in the bore.
The slower the burning is, the more pitting you get. It is something you cannot get rid of.
When I changed the barrel of my Unique T3000, after 13.500 rounds through it, I cut it lenght wise and saw that the grooves were gone in about 4" starting from the chamber.
A clear pitting had replaced the grooves, turning them into free bore.
Sorry for not showing any pic, but I don't remember where the barrel has gone.

 

[chop house]

How is the rifle performing on the target? This is what I concern myself with.

the rifle is still printing in the 5/8" range. my biggest concern was that i was overlooking or contributing something somehow to the deterioration that would transfer to other bbls that can not be replaced so easily

 

[chop house]

Have you ever shot a factory made rifle that is more accurate?

across the board, no. that is why i own several of these. as replied to someoldguy, i want to make sure that i, or my processes, am not a contributing factor. i switch bbls around some, installed a .204 takeoff on one and proceed to shoot 3/8" 5 shot group sith 'random' handloads before it had 10 shots down it.

 

[chop house]

IMHO, a borescope evaluation of your barrel is useless unless you have grouping, accuracy problems OR a high bullet count.

well, i differ somewhat in philosophy. when it goes south it is too late, potentially. the 'scope lets you see in what direction you're heading. keeps you from over cleaning. for example, i don't wait for metal powder to appear in my motor oil, but i also do not change at 3k.

 

[chop house]

Pitting is one of the effects of the powder burning in the bore.

i have rifles that the throat is completely frosted and crazed that can still shoot well. i am refering to random pits in the last 12" toward the muzzle of this one.

 

[chop house]

iin the past, having dealt with lots of milsurp rifles, my criteria was always don't worry unless the pits span an entire land, or if lengthwise they are longer than the bearing surface of a bullet. was just surprised to see them in a 6 month old rifle, of current production, that was not carried afield or stored in the barn. thanks for the replies, all

 

[mikeeg02]

I bought a savage model 12, 6br this February. Put 1,500 or so rounds through it shooting competitively in factory class this spring/summer, and experienced the same as you. Pitting throughout the entire length of barrel. (I was shocked at the muzzle end) I was also shooting at dasher speeds, (~2940 was where it shot best) and am also missing small sections of rifling. I thoroughly clean after every match, and usually in between heats when shooting paper. Still shoots decent. I just chalked it up to the factory barrel blues.

Now if I saw that in my custom I'd be concerned. But Its not pitted.

 

[Shynloco]

well, i differ somewhat in philosophy. when it goes south it is too late, potentially. the 'scope lets you see in what direction you're heading. keeps you from over cleaning. for example, i don't wait for metal powder to appear in my motor oil, but i also do not change at 3k.

May I ask, what the heck does, "when it goes south, it is too late." mean...? And what does the scope have to do with it? If your scope is set and you are using the same loads as before, it is your groups on the target that tell you when the barrel has gone south along with consideration of the number of bullets down the tube. There's a HUGE difference between a Milspec rifle barrel and a Benchrest Match Rifle barrel. BTW, I don't own a Milspec rifle and I believe it is COMPLETELY unrealistic to believe (or compare) that any Milspe barrel can keep up with a Benchrest Rifle barrel. I've never heard of anyone shooting a Milspec Rifle in 6ppc or 6br at any distance in competition or otherwise and I've been shooting rifles of all sorts (including in the Military for more than 50 yrs). My rifles alone tell me when they're done with a barrel and no borescope around tells me better than my rifle. Never has and never will.

Alex

 

[Albany Mountain]

the rifle is still printing in the 5/8" range. my biggest concern was that i was overlooking or contributing something somehow to the deterioration that would transfer to other bbls that can not be replaced so easily

You are probably putting too many bullets through that barrel. This is a common problem, especially with many members here.

 

[bluealtered]

Guys years ago on savageshooters we were discussing how savage barrels always looked like they were finished with a really nasty rasp. At that time some of the savage factory shooters were forum members and would from time to time, (when they weren't busy traveling the world winning matches) join us in our discussions.

One forum member made the comment that the barrels that were winning the match's must be a heck of a lot better than what we were shooting with our off the rack rifles, no they were the same barrels we used stated one of the factory shooters and he showed us a very clear photo of the rifling of the current barrel he was using at that time. It was just as ugly as our factory production run barrels. At that point i never felt the need to look down at the rifling on what ever savage i was shooting, ... because i knew two things for sure, it would be ugly and it would shoot as well or better than any other factory barrel in it's class.

 

[AckleymanII]

Chop House, are you using a lyman or a Hawkeye bore scope, I have both. The Lyman is digital, and often powder fouling will look like pits.

Hawkeye is pure optical image, it revealed the powder fouling.

Also, I defer to Dusty's and Groc Max posts.

For me, it is like a sucker punch to the gut when you think you see pitting.