Pistol Reloading?

[Pyscodog]

How do you know if you have a good load for your pistol if your a lousy shot??? I've never been much of a pistolero but I try. Needless to say, I hope I never have to defend my life with a pistol only. I loaded some 158 grain XTP's with W296 for my new 357 Python and hoping they shoot good. As long as I shoot pretty close up, maybe I can tell if they are a decent load. I want to carry it during deer season and I'd love to shoot a doe or even a buck with it but will probably just keep it handy for maybe a pig if one shows up. I pretty much know the answer to my question........practice practice practice. Then practice some more.

 

[tominboise]

Shoot them off a bench rest, taking your time and shooting some groups at 25 yards. I use some sand bags under my wrist and try to stretch out with my arm and shoulder resting on the bench, with my head resting on my shoulder, if you understand what I am trying to convey.

I usually load 6 shots with various charge weights and shoot groups with them. If any charge weight looks promising, I will rerun the test to confirm. Then reload away.

After you get a load figured out, then yes, practice, practice, practice. I would personally practice in double action mode for the most part. I'd start shooting at 15 yards and work my out as far as you plan on shooting.

I am sure others will have methods and opinions as well.

 

[brokeasajoke]

How do you know if you have a good load for your pistol if your a lousy shot??? I've never been much of a pistolero but I try. Needless to say, I hope I never have to defend my life with a pistol only. I loaded some 158 grain XTP's with W296 for my new 357 Python and hoping they shoot good. As long as I shoot pretty close up, maybe I can tell if they are a decent load. I want to carry it during deer season and I'd love to shoot a doe or even a buck with it but will probably just keep it handy for maybe a pig if one shows up. I pretty much know the answer to my question........practice practice practice. Then practice some more.

If I'm shooting at you with a pistol stand still and you are safe. Start moving an I'll hit ya. Lol.

 

[rwj]

How do you know if you have a good load for your pistol if your a lousy shot???

Ransom rest… https://ransomrest.com/

 

[SSL]

Way too many people think you just pick up a handgun and start hitting tin cans at 100 yards from the hip (and of course held sideways - thank you stupid movies). Handguns require serious dedication and work. Remember that double-action is for fast shooting (read 'defense') and single-action is for serious accuracy (read hitting something). Get used to single-action and pay a lot of attention to sight picture and trigger break. Use a rest if you want to start out, but never rest the barrel on the rest or barrel/cylinder gasses will soon destroy most rests (and blow torn sandbag fill all over - especially into your eyes). Rest your wrists on the rest like @tominboise recommended and concentrate. Single-action! You can get fancy when you get comfortable with repeated accurate shots.

 

[K22]

First you have to confirm that you have an accurate load. The best way is to eliminate as much shooter error as possible. This means shooting off a bench. I prefer load testing at 25 yards using sandbags to support both wrists using a two-hand hold on the pistol. Keep your eye level with the front sight. I like a 12-shot group for revolvers to test a load. Shoot a string of 6, slowly taking your time then let the barrel cool and repeat. This is the easy part.

When I shot competition both in the Army and as a civilian, firearms and load testing was done with a Machine Ranson Rest which eliminated shooter error, but good results can be obtained off the bench with sandbags if you take your time and learn proper trigger control and sight alignment fundamentals.

To become an accomplished pistol shooter requires that you first and foremost learn the fundamentals of pistol marksmanship. The best resource I ever read is the Army Markmanship Pistol Guide. This is well written, clear, and prepared by experts.

Once you understand the fundamentals, then it is matter of dedicated and focused practice. As you become more accomplished you need to learn to call your shoots and diagnose what went right and what when wrong and why. Dry firing (safely) is an important part of the training.

Shooting 25 to 30 rounds per range session that is focused on applying the fundamental is much better than shooting a lot of rounds indiscriminately. Practice without knowing and applying the fundamentals is a wasted effort if you want to become an accomplished pistol shooter. Range shooting should be supplemented with dry fire practice several times a week rehearing the fundamentals until they become second nature.

A mentor with credentials (e.g., an individual with NRA Expert or Master rating) can be great help. Also beginning with a 22 LR pistol makes it easier to master the fundamentals.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

First you have to confirm that you have an accurate load. The best way is to eliminate as much shooter error as possible. This means shooting off a bench. I prefer load testing at 25 yards using sandbags to support both wrists using a two-hand hold on the pistol. Keep your eye level with the front sight. I like a 12-shot group for revolvers to test a load. Shoot a string of 6, slowly taking your time then let the barrel cool and repeat. This is the easy part.

When I shot competition both in the Army and as a civilian, firearms and load testing was done with a Machine Ranson Rest which eliminated shooter error, but good results can be obtained off the bench with sandbags if you take your time and learn proper trigger control and sight alignment fundamentals.

To become an accomplished pistol shooter requires that you first and foremost learn the fundamentals of pistol marksmanship. The best resource I ever read is the Army Markmanship Pistol Guide. This is well written, clear, and prepared by experts.

Once you understand the fundamentals, then it is matter of dedicated and focused practice. As you become more accomplished you need to learn to call your shoots and diagnose what went right and what when wrong and why. Dry firing (safely) is an important part of the training.

Shooting 25 to 30 rounds per range session that is focused on applying the fundamental is much better than shooting a lot of rounds indiscriminately. Practice without knowing and applying the fundamentals is a wasted effort if you want to become an accomplished pistol shooter. Range shooting should be supplemented with dry fire practice several times a week rehearing the fundamentals until they become second nature.

A mentor with credentials (e.g., an individual with NRA Expert or Master rating) can be great help. Also beginning with a 22 LR pistol makes it easier to master the fundamentals.

K22, something about your name should suggest to the OP a S&W revolver.
A 6” model 28 Highway Patrolman given to me by my Naval Dentist Uncle, made me a believer!

 

[DirtySteve]

@PhilKeil this is right up you alley..

 

[cem]

Ransom Rest, I have two. Notice that getting the best out of a Ransom Rest is a technique in itself. One of the truly all time greats is rumored to have had a friend do his load testing in a Ransom Rest because the friend was a better shot with the rest though not as good hand held.

Buy some premium match ammunition. I used to use Federal Gold Medal Match but there are many others truly premium just as there are many built to price not precision. If your test loads matches the premium then it's probably capable of premium level accuracy even if the shooter isn't.

Ask a known good shooter to be a proxy shooter.

One of my own mixed memories is having a friend who had never shot anything but duty revolvers hand me his then new collet bushing 1911 and ask: is it me or is it the pistol? To my sorrow I took some pleasure in shooting respectable groups and handing him his pistol I said It's you. Maybe an easier fix. At the time I was shooting 3 gun pistol and had thousands and tens of thousands shots fired in a 1911. Given a little practice to transition from a duty revolver to a 1911 my friend did fine.

 

[Intheshop]

Don't use it for handguns much anymore but,the best accuracy rest I ever put together was as follows;

Think it 1/4" but could be 5/16" steel rod welded into V about the included angle of you making a wide'ish peace sign with your hand/fingers. Then this V gets welded to the top of a piece of 3/4" allthread....

A 3/4" threaded coupling gets welded to the bttm of a 2" steel washer. This washer has 3 holes drilled in it's perimeter to screw it down to say,a 2x12(I used mahogany drops from a handrail). The coupling gets "burried" into the 2x12. Jam nut to tighten the whole thing up. The welded V screws down through coupling.

Surgical hose gets slid over the V legs. Use an BR elbow pad under the pistol butt,and work on this with your grip... really need a vise like grip(busting firewood with a maul increases your grip strength but is fundamental in the grip...eyes....brain interface so important to pistols and bow shooting)....

The stiction of the V is perfect with your vise/grip on the bag... and the barrel recoils up and off the V. Grip strength and eyesight are biggies. Dry fire practice is important. Learn to lower your pulse rate. If,you're still with it after all this ... then all the nuances of dialing in the specifics of the bullet to gun fit start. After that,comes a fair amount of load development.

The actual powder "numbers" seem to take a back seat to all the above. Sayin,get the rest,bullet fit,and pistol fundementals down,you're going to see pretty quick if you find a X ring killing load. I'd start low and work up,yes for all the obvious safety reasons but pistol shooting challenges your bench manners in a way that your concentration is always at a ragged edge. So shoot about 75% with a low node target load.... save the heavy hitters for things that matter. Good luck with your project.

 

[K22]

K22, something about your name should suggest to the OP a S&W revolver.
A 6” model 28 Highway Patrolman given to me by my Naval Dentist Uncle, made me a believer!

You nailed it. I acquired my first S&W Model 17 (K22), 22 LR revolver, 6"-barrel, target hammer and trigger, target stocks (factory) in 1970. My dad gave me the money to purchase it as a gift. I was home on leave from the Army. It cost $87. Can you believe that.

In my opinion, it is the greatest pistol ever made. I shot NRA bullseye with it (qualified Distinguished Expert), Small Bore Hunter's Pistol Silhouette (qualified AAA), won Hi Revolver in 1987 in the US Revolver Association 22 RF Slow Fire match and hunted small game with it. I still have it today and while at 76, I am not where near as good a shot as I was, on a good day I can still shoot a 90 or better on a B16 target at 25 yards. But I have to use two hands due an arthritic elbow.

Prior to that I had an H&R, top break 22 revolver which I "cut my teeth on" learning to shoot a pistol. But I wanted an S&W in the worst way and my dad made it happen!

Over the years, I have owned the entire range of S&W revolvers from the great 44 Magnum Model 29 to the Model 34 "Kit" revolver. I hunted ground hogs extensively with the S&W Model 27, 357 Magnum but only ever took one deer with this pistol.

I also shot the centerfire stage of NRA precision with an S&W 38 Special, Model 14. I won the Outdoor Pittsburgh Metropolitain Police League Center Fire in 1985. One shooter shot higher than me but didn't not shoot enough matches to qualify for the title.

But it wasn't until I joined the Army post pistol team that I learned how to really shoot a pistol. We used Hi-Standard 22 semi auto target pistols and accurized 45 ACP's. However, I always favored a revolver. I guess I watched too many episodes of Gunsmoke. An of course, there was Dirty Harry!

 

[Kalitrazescapee]

I think fit,hand size also comes into play...maybe it's like an old friend? Unless a .22 target pistol or contender, I'm happy w coffee can groups at 25 yds w/ o glasses...sights. Kinda fuzzy that way.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

If the 158's don't shoot well, try the 125's. Just like rifles some revolvers will show preference for certain bullets.

 

[DiRTY DOG]

Once you understand the fundamentals, then it is matter of dedicated and focused practice. As you become more accomplished you need to learn to call your shoots and diagnose what went right and what when wrong and why. Dry firing (safely) is an important part of the training.

Yes. But most pistol shooters looking for advice immediately dismiss dry firing and won't do it. They hate it because many pistol courses include endless grueling dry fire and malfunction drills that are anything but fun. Those instructors ruin it for a lot of guys right off the bat, and they don't even teach dry fire correctly to begin with.

First you have to learn how to aim (align the sights). Then you have to learn how to press the trigger. Only after you've learned those two things can you learn how to do them both at the same time. This can largely be mastered via dry fire. Only then can you self diagnose what you just did (call your shots). Novices lacking the fundamentals sending lead downrange usually just reinforces poor habbits.

 

[rr2030]

How well do you shoot with a .22 target pistol? That should help determine if it's the ammo, firearm, or you...

 

[Pyscodog]

I shot the Colt this morning. Shot some factory 125's and my handloaded 140 and 158's. I did use my rifle rest so I was pretty stable. Seems I shot the best groups with the 158 XTP. I only shot at 15yds but wanted to adjust my sight as I hadn't done that yet. Groups weren't "Bugholes" but maybe coffee cup size. I was OK with that and but hope for improvement.

 

[K22]

Yes. But most pistol shooters looking for advice immediately dismiss dry firing and won't do it. They hate it because many pistol courses include endless grueling dry fire and malfunction drills that are anything but fun. Those instructors ruin it for a lot of guys right off the bat, and they don't even teach dry fire correctly to begin with.

First you have to learn how to aim (align the sights). Then you have to learn how to press the trigger. Only after you've learned those two things can you learn how to do them both at the same time. This can largely be mastered via dry fire. Only then can you self diagnose what you just did (call your shots). Novices lacking the fundamentals sending lead downrange usually just reinforces poor habbits.

This is why learning the fundamentals of stance, natural point of aim, grip, breathe control, front sight focus, positive trigger action, and follow though are so important. The Army Manual I referenced contains a detailed description of these fundamentals, how to train, and how to diagnose a poor shot once a shooter can group shots in some semblance of a pattern.

It does take some time before meaningful diagnose of shot can be undertaken. However, one of the most effective drills we were taught was shooting live ammo, mixed with a dry fire shot, unknown by the shooter. Obviously, this takes someone loading the cylinder or magazine, so the shooter doesn't know which chamber doesn't contain a live round and in the case of magazine, how many live rounds are loaded. Often, the instructor will see the shooter heel the shot or drop the front sight in anticipation of the recoil on the dry fire shot.

There are other drills we were taught. For example, holding a quarter in a hand exerciser and moving your trigger finger forward and backwards. Almost all new shooters and some experienced shooters will relax their grip on the exerciser causing the quarter to fall to the floor. This teaches maintaining even pressure by the lower three fingers when pulling the trigger which is critical to preventing pushing a shot to the left or right.

Another was shooting at the reverse side of the target (no bull) so the shooter can learn the fundamentals of front sight focus, trigger control, and follow through.

Bottom line, yes it takes knowledge and work if you have the desire to shoot at the expert and above level. But this is the same in any athletic endeavor to reach the top. There's nothing wrong with punching tin cans at 10 yards just to have fun but if you want to become a serious and accomplished pistol shooter it requires effort and time.

 

[CJ6]

How do you know if you have a good load for your pistol if your a lousy shot???

Let someone more experienced shoot it

 

[DGP4]

Lots of great advice here! I also am a lousy pistol shot, but I got a lot better with lots of practice. I would get a decent .22LR pistol to accomplish that at a low cost. I started on a Browning Buck Mark and it was the best investment I made to improve my shooting. The biggest problem for most pistol shooters is flinching in anticipation of recoil. A rimfire pistol or revolver helps eliminate that as recoil is so light. I also am a big revolver fan and my K22 Masterpiece is my favorite handgun to target shoot. Light .38 SPL target loads in your .357 will also work to avoid flinch and get lots of practice. I mainly shoot 158 grain SWCs with a light load of 3.2 grains of Titegroup. You can also load .357 cases with 125 grain TMJs with 3.7 grains of Titegroup. The other powders that have worked well for me are Clean Shot and Winchester WST.

 

[jds holler]

My gold standard for grouping loads with my 6" 686 used to be two inch-ish at 50 yards. If my particular load and bullet was getting that small at that range I figure good enough for me. I've done 1" groups, but not often, and am kind of skeptical of the guys who say they do it regular like.

I haven't been loading and shooting for that gun for awhile, and wouldn't be surprised if my gold standard is now 4 inches or more. jd