Persistently Loose Rail - Tool and Locking Compound Issues

[6ShotsOr5?]

My first post in this part of the Forum.

I’ve got an EGW rail on a 338 LM Savage that is working a lot better than the factory rail, but it still comes loose after around 80-100 shots. I have using the stick type blue loctite and around 45-50 ft-lbs to reattach. I have not had a problem with a rail coming loose on other rifles.

Today I noticed the rail was loose again. No trouble removing the four screws, they were just hand tight. When retightening today, after I made it to 30 ft-lbs I noticed my T10 driver was twisting on the tip, and it happened to two different ones. I mean it yielded. I think the tool steel is crap. What is a recommended brand and steel grade for Torx / Hex head etc bits so that the tool is at least as hard as the screws? I don’t know much about tools, always leaned toward Craftsman unless I had other information, but I wonder about them now that Sears is folding.

I am also unsure about what locking compound would help the rail hold longer. I have been using blue loctite liquid and stick types. I have on hand unopened packets of the liquid in red strength, and I also have Roksett.

 

[memilanuk]

Get rid of the T10 screws. I've had nothing but grief with them over the years. If that means pitching that EGW rail and getting a Farrell, so be it.

If you have a rail that consistently comes loose, the problem may be the rail... or it may be the receiver, due to the production processes. Usually bedding the rail to the receiver will 'fix' the problem, one way or another. Some people prefer to make it a permanent bond i.e. no release agent, instead relying on heat (from a torch) when/if you decided to remove the rail down the road.

 

[CharlieNC]

Yea, bed it "permanently" or it will probably continue to haunt you.

 

[6ShotsOr5?]

I don’t mind making it permanent, red loctite on the contact points of the rail and the screws, or something else?

@milanuk who is your go to supplier for specialty screws? I can probably measure the threads, length, and cap size and figure out what size hex should work, but I don’t know who has a good selection.

 

[liljoe]

McMaster Carr probably has what you need.
Use jb weld to bed it and glue it together and red loctite on the screws. I would much rather have to work to get it apart someday than worry about keeping it together.

 

[memilanuk]

I don’t mind making it permanent, red loctite on the contact points of the rail and the screws, or something else?

JB Weld or other bedding compound of choice on the rail. Some sort of release agent on the screws, or it really *will* be permanent. Loctite on the screws is fine, but getting JB in there is no bueno.

who is your go to supplier for specialty screws?

Brownell's, generally.

 

[6ShotsOr5?]

Great, thanks guys.

 

[jepp2]

What is a recommended brand and steel grade for Torx / Hex head etc bits so that the tool is at least as hard as the screws?

I think you will be very happy with the Brownells Magna Tip bits: https://www.brownells.com/search/index.htm?k=t10+magna+tip&ksubmit=y

Make sure you do a good job of cleaning the threads (receiver and screw) to remove all the old thread locker and any oils before you apply the thread locker.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Purple loctite (small fastener) then jb weld the rail on. If it comes loose you need to get it pinned

 

[carlsbad]

If a fastener isn't staying put with proper torque on it, then the joint isn't stable. You have a poor fit between the rail and the rifle. You need to bed it. That will fix your problem. --Jerry

 

[6ShotsOr5?]

Thanks everyone. I’ve got a fresh package of purple too, and I picked up the JB weld last night. I think the purple on the threads and JB on the contact points should get ‘r done.

 

[carlsbad]

You realize that this is 2 steps. Find which end is high. put JB weld under the high end and then only put the screws in the low end. Let the JB weld cure, clean up, and put the screw in the high side. There are other preparation steps needed that are findable on the internet but this is the big picture strategy. -Jerry

 

[6ShotsOr5?]

Not trying to argue, but it seems like it would be stronger to put the JB on both ends and snug it down on both. I got the kind that takes several hours to develop strength. Why is it better to just JB on the high end?

 

[carlsbad]

When you snug down both ends, you are bending the rail, that is whey it isn't ending up in unstressed equilibrium. The goal with bedding is the get the rail to set there on top unbent and perfectly matching the action. When the JB weld cures with only one end secured, the rail now perfectly matches the action.

 

[tmwinds]

Concerning your Torx bits, I don't want the bit harder than the screw. I would rather get a new bit than bugger up a screw head. This is based on my procedure of tightening until you think something is going to break, then go another 1/8 turn.

 

[6ShotsOr5?]

When you snug down both ends, you are bending the rail, that is whey it isn't ending up in unstressed equilibrium. The goal with bedding is the get the rail to set there on top unbent and perfectly matching the action. When the JB weld cures with only one end secured, the rail now perfectly matches the action.

Sounds reasonable, thanks.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Concerning your Torx bits, I don't want the bit harder than the screw. I would rather get a new bit than bugger up a screw head. This is based on my procedure of tightening until you think something is going to break, then go another 1/8 turn.

Can you even buy a non-hardened bit?

 

[carlsbad]

Not one that admits it. Buy a cheap Chinese bit and it will be soft.

I take the opposite approach. A good bit and a good screw should never release. I can easily twist a screw off before the bit releases. use a torque wrench if you aren't an expert. --Jerry

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

It will be hard to find interchangeable screw driver bits that will handle 50 ft pounds. I worry at 60 inch pounds about the the screw and the bit.

 

[carlsbad]

It will be hard to find interchangeable screw driver bits that will handle 50 ft pounds. I worry at 60 inch pounds about the the screw and the bit.

Indeed. LOL.