Overpointing Question

[broncman]

I finally got all my stuff together to point some 185 Juggernauts using the Whidden die.

Trying to get a feel for what is enough before it becomes too much. All the bullets have been trimmed first and deburred inside the point with a Montour type trimmer.

Where is the first place to look for over pointing issues? Pressure ring diameter? Base to ogive comparator length? Or does it deform the overall ogive profile first?

 

[savageshooter86]

It didn't come with the two example bullets? He used to put them in there to show what was "too much" and one that was good.

IIRC when you start to see a bulge ring that is too much. So adjust so that no ring forms. That will show just a little below the tip

 

[broncman]

It came with 2 6mm bullets as examples. Different profile than the Jugs , but just curious as to how much to close. I can get almost closed without creating any BTO difference or bulges, but they do have the sharp angle funnel shape.

On the examples they send, is it the sharp angle shape the are saying is no good or the sharp angle WITH the accompanying bulge?

Did that make any sense?

 

[savageshooter86]

Buldge is example of too much. Go on their website too. Gives a little more info. It said they have no evidence that sight bulge is detrimental. But I figure just adjust so the bulge barely goes away

I tested this for John few years back and it was very nice tool. I might buy one for personal use. Any gain at 1000 will be helpful

 

[DocBII]

broncman,

Did you do any sorting by ogive length or were all the bullets trimmed to the same length? The instructions suggest doing so before pointing. I've found +/- 0.002" on length matters for consistent pointing.

HTH,
DocBII

 

[broncman]

Yes I sorted by base to ogive first. Just sorted about 300 by base to ogive, then sorted those by seating stem to ogive. I trimmed a small batch, deburred the inside and pointed them. I did a second batch by just using a tiny center drill to deburr the tip an then pointed those. No trimming on the second batch.

I will shoot the two different batches in the March club match. If I can skip the trimming process, it will save some time. This batch of Bergers have pretty decent tips ,so I might be able to forgo the trimming

 

[rjnallie]

I have been playing with pointing the 185 Juggernauts also. So far, I cannot find an amount of pointing that reduces group size at 600 yds. A few weeks ago I shot unpointed, pointed, and trimmed and pointed on a no wind day. The unpointed bullets shot the best group, although the pointed ones shot about 1 1/2" higher. The trimmed and pointed shot 1 1/2" than the pointed ones with a slightly larger group than the unpointed group. So I gained roughly 1/2 minute of vertical with no reduction of group size. If you put these bullets on a Juenke machine, you probably won't point. Any amount of point makes the reading larger. Obviously from actual results from other shooters, pointing works, I just have not found the sweet spot.
Raymond

 

[SDDasher]

All the bullets have been trimmed first and deburred inside the point ...

I thought I was OCD with pointing/trimming meplate/pointing....but "deburring the hole in the tip?????

Ray I also experience an increase in BC by sorting/trimming/pointing bullets and believe when competing against the heavies in the wind I want every ounce of increased accuracy I can squeeze out of those little 105's. 😃

 

[savageshooter86]

Don't think 600 yards you will see benefit. Do test at 1000 yards

 

[Rtheurer]

Don't think 600 yards you will see benefit. Do test at 1000 yards

Concur with this 100% I don't waste my time with it at 600 yards... 1000yards that really shows up.
RT

 

[SDDasher]

Don't think 600 yards you will see benefit. Do test at 1000 yards

Concur with this 100% I don't waste my time with it at 600 yards... 1000yards that really shows up.
RT

I hope every competitor I shoot against feels exactly the same as the posters above 😉

 

[savageshooter86]

So you can tell a difference at 600? What do you gain?

 

[SDDasher]

Andrew
From the response you gave to only tipping and pointing your bullets for longer distances you concede the practice improves accuracy or that is what I get from your logic.
My reasoning tells me if I agree and I do, that it would follow an increase in accuracy will also be gained at less than Long distance.
The question then becomes how much and is it worth it based upon? Time? Money? Effort? or perhaps confidence in knowing if I flub a shot at 100,600 or a thousand yards it will be on me and not because I did not do everything I could to get the best performance from my equipment/components. I point and tip all my bullets from practice to compitition to afford consistency for comparison. Just and old man's way of passing time doing something he enjoys immensely.

 

[Rtheurer]

Don't think 600 yards you will see benefit. Do test at 1000 yards

Concur with this 100% I don't waste my time with it at 600 yards... 1000yards that really shows up.
RT

I hope every competitor I shoot against feels exactly the same as the posters above 😉

Just doing my part to help.... ; )

 

[Snuggie]

When I started pointing my 80 SMK's my X count went up dramatically! Haven't started trimming the meplats yet but it's coming. The little ragged tip is still there. OCD..OCD..OCD!!

 

[savageshooter86]

can anyone else say their scores went up with only pointing their bullets? Has me thinking hard about getting one

 

[Gabe22BR]

does he off a 22 cal??

 

[SDDasher]

Yes Whidden offers both the Meplate trimmer and bullet pointing system to accommodate a multitude of bullets and calibers. John Hoover at Accuracy One also has quality products for improving your bullets accuracy.

 

[DaveMarine1]

I have pointed a fair share of bullets. The .30cal 185 Jugs and the 185 Hybrids. The Jugs point really nice with the #0 insert. The Hybrids I used both #0 and #1 but the #1 seemed to do a little bit better for the longer nose.
I sort by ogive length. It seems, at least for my taste, that if I adjust the micrometer of the Whidden die down to where I just measure .0005-.001 of a change after pointing, in the ogive, I will back off a few thousandths until the original ogive length is maintained after pointing. Then I point my batch of bullets sorted for that length. Then it is easy to adjust by a few .001's as the batches of sorted bullets vary. I trim off .005 or so and then turn the micrometer down .005 and do a final point. I know, I know, it sounds like a lot, and one learns and gains more with trigger time, but, in ND, for a reloader, we are granted the fortune of at least 4 good months each winter of sitting at the reloading bench, prepping brass, sorting brass, priming brass, sorting bullets, prepping bullets......well, you get the idea.

This method gives me good, tipped bullets I feel. I have seen at 1000 yards that it helped my vertical and allowed me to properly "call and plot" my shot with more accuracy and confidence.

I am not sure where I read it, and if it was Bryan Litz who stated the following or not, but that "bulge" that you get on the tip, although the bullet is tipped properly, should not effect the bullet. He went on to say that it is no different than what is already there with the transition of the nose of the bullet to ogive.

Just my $0.02

David

 

[6BRinNZ]

I sort by ogive length. It seems, at least for my taste, that if I adjust the micrometer of the Whidden die down to where I just measure .0005-.001 of a change after pointing, in the ogive, I will back off a few thousandths until the original ogive length is maintained after pointing.
David

+1