Optics page, what gives on ratings?

[Changeling]

I have read the review/descriptions on the scopes and have some difficulty with the rating system.

The Burris 8x32 gets one of the lowest ratings,3*)! but when you "Really" read the explanations of all scopes pros and cons, it's shortcomings certainly don't equal those of some/most of the other scopes regardless of price! If you factor in price, it probably takes a strong lead!! Consider the cons on the Burris and Leupold and see what is important to you!
The rating system seems to lack a lot for some reason and makes no sense.
Changeling

 

[Forum Boss]

Changeling,

You have to look through one, and then immediately look through a Leupold and the Nightforce. The Burris is bright, but doesn't have the resolution of the other two. The two available reticles,mildot and fine-plex) are both really too thick for super-precise target work. The Side-focus seems almost an afterthought. It is very small diameter and spins really easily so it takes a very fine touch to master. There have also been more reports of have-to-send-it back problems with Burris than with the higher-rated scopes. The issues with the Leupolds,slight off-axis cross-hairs, lash in parallax adjustment) people have figured out ways to live with.

But you have a point. If I purchased a Leupold, and it arrived with canted cross-hairs, AND excess lash, AND you couldn't get the parallax out and keep the target in focus, then I'd hardly call that a 4-star scope. Thankfully, most owners don't get all three problems to the same degree, and there is a work-around for the lash issue.

Bottom line, and I've used them both, if someone offered me the Burris 8-32 or a Leupold 8-25 LRT, I'd take the Leupold for a competition gun, even though it only has 1/4 moa clicks. For a varmint gun, I could live with the fine plex,which is actually fairly thick--at Shot Show I specifically asked Burris to make a Fine Cross-Hair or Target Dot version), and learn to work the side focus. The Nightforce has both beat both in features and repeatability, and that is why it earned out highest rating. Also, and perhaps this should have been clarified, the ratings are absolute--not relative to price. That's why the Burris was named a BEST BUY while rated lower than the NF for example.

 

[Changeling]

Moderator, I understand what you are saying. If the Burris has those problems, I sincerely hope you mail this discussion to them. The basic "bitch" I have been getting is with clarity/resolution!
In regard to the problems with Leupold, I am starting to believe they are trying to live on reputation,From the past)! I own several Leupold's from pistol to 6.5-20. These are older scopes that I have never had a problem with!
Now I hear of things like the reticle, clarity, etc,. on a regular basis!
When I pay $700. to $1300. dollars for a scope, I don't except to find "ANY" problems! If I did I would simply send it back for a refund, no refund, I don't buy your scope!
For Leupold as a business, I would be embarrassed all to hell if someone told me that I had something as simple/drastic as a vertical reticle problem and would recall the whole batch!!
If they started talking about a "Work-Around" I would absolutely "Demand" my money back.
They have gone down hill for some time now, I think there day of control is approaching an end, if you have any sense!!
Changeling

 

[Forum Boss]

With respect to the canted reticle on Leupolds--give Premier Reticles a call. They fix this issue all the time when doing reticle conversions or boosts. Fact of the matter, Leupold is simply tolerating a higher defect level than they should. And most buyers won't notice. Since I've worked with precision cameras and page design for many years, I can normally spot something that is 1 degree off with little difficulty. Three degrees off-axis is WAY noticeable to my eyes. But yes I've looked through Leups that were canted as much as 4 degrees relative to the turrets.

But until shooters start complaining, and sending the scopes back in, Leupold is unlikely to change. When I met the Leupold Reps at Shot Show I asked pointedly "What are you folks doing about the parallax issue on the side-focus scopes". The rep, who was identified as a Sr. Product engineer said "what parallax issue?" Ask most top 1K benchrest competitors and they know exactly what you're talking about.

Sometimes what companies do truely defies explanation. Case in point, the BMW 7 series. This was one of the best-looking sedans ever made. Then they hire a designer who transforms it into one of the ugliest sedans ever made. I attribute that to a failure of management. Same thing with Leupold. Somewhere along the way upper management has lost sight of Q/C and it is quite possible they don't really know the extent of the problem.

I would love to see an independent testing organization, supported by consumer memberships, that would test and certify scopes. Don't think that will ever happen however.

 

[Changeling]

"I would love to see an independent testing organization, supported by consumer memberships, that would test and certify scopes. Don't think that will ever happen however."

I used to believe in some organizations like "Consumer Reports" who swear on a stack of bibles that they are not biased in any way and that has come back on me in the form of BS more than once. I no longer listen to anything they have to say. Instead I find a forum of guys relative to what I am looking for and investigate on my own, works great, or at least,lot better!

I play the stock market on a daily basis with my own rules that I adhere to very strictly!! I do OK. These days, companies have thrown the concept of "Consumer Satisfaction" right out the window, except as a "ploy", in there advertisements, which a lot of people buy. The only concern of most businesses these days is the bottom line on there stock price and getting consumers "started" with there companies! It is a definite fact that consumer loyalty "works" even when they are getting screwed to death!!
Changeling

 

[Blueboat]

I have had,3) 6x24x50 Burris scopes 1 I ordered from midway it came in an 8x32x50 box I sent it back. The second had parallax at 125 yards and would not adjust out using the side parallax adjustment. The third was unclear at 100 yards, I sent it back to Burris and they repaired it, it was real clear at 100 yards unfortunately it was unclear at 300 yards. I sent it back to midway to get my money back. I have a 3x9x32 burris hand gun scope it is 18 months old and has been back to Burris 3 times. That’s it for me and Burris.

 

[KLENCHBLAIZE]

I have two Burris 4 - 12 compacts. One on a rimfire and the other on an air-gun. I now realize it is not my poor mounting technique that has the elevation turrets canted on both to give a non canted reticle! Thanks for this revelation.:idea:

Now for something to drool over with no such problems, although no doubt a few bucks more: Enter the new Schmidt & Bender 5 - 25X56 with all the whistles and bells. A real must-have number for dawn & dusk varmint and deer hunting here in the UK. The only disappointment:cry: is that you'll need an ugly rail/bridge mount, on Rem 700 type actions, to get those 34mm rings correctly spaced and positioned for spot-on eye relief. ,Just look how little usable main tube is available.)

Keep those bug holes coming!:thumb:

Klenchblaize

 

[Longshot]

In regards Leupold's problems with parallax adjustment in the side focus models, I have an 8.5-25X50 LRT that exhibited this problem. I did send it back to Leupold, and they told me the scope was fine. I insisted that they take it off the optical bench and out to the range where they'd see clearly that it was NOT fine.

To weeks later, I got the scope back with a note saying they hadn't done anything. However, the parallax vs proper focus problem had "mysteriously" disappeared,?)

Needless to say there was a problem, and it was fixed. But clearly Leupold isn't interested in admitting to the issue.

Regards,
Bert