Opinions on Lothar-Walther barrels?

[Robert]

If you use a CM barrel, it machines like any other. If it is LW50 it machines like 17-4. Your smith will have to use a good cutting oil and much higher speeds and feed. BDMT, it should last longer, but let me know if it does. Are you using the LW50? Make sure your smith studies it before doing it. It is not harder or tougher, it just needs to be machined properly. You need to forget what you have used in the past. It will make a decent hunting barrel, but not a competition barrel.
How was that?

Sorry, Butch et all, but LW 50 is not a 17-4PH (630), but a 420.

Here are some comparison with 416:


-The 416, supplied in annealed condition, is about:
Brinell Hardness : 170-175
Rm: 630-650MPa
Modulus of Elasticity: 200Gpa.
Thermal conductivity: 25W/m-k

-While the 420 is:
Brinell Hardness 205
Rm: 725Mpa
Modulus of Elasticity: 200GPa.
Thermal conductivity: 25W/m-k

R.G.C

 

[butchlambert]

Robert, I said it machined like 17-4, didn't say that it was 17-4.

 

[Ackman]

Some people don't like Woody, the LW guy, and don't like the company. That's their privilege. He's opinionated and doesn't have much patience with people who play the knowitall with him. But I've enjoyed talking with him and had real good luck with those barrels. Two 22-250AI barrels and one 22Mag. The 22M is 416 stainless and it shoots beautifully. The centerfires are the LW alloy. It's not 17-4 and it's not harder, but tougher than ordinary stainless. They claim it better resists wear and the cracking from the heat and expansion/contraction of firing. I believe it. First 1,000 rds were fireforming with 50's at 4113. There was no break-in and the first 35rds were finding a load....there wasn't a trace of copper. Next 45rds were shooting prairie dogs and there was no copper, none. After 100rds there'll be one patch with a slight hint of blue and after that, none. Coppering just isn't a factor with this barrel. Now after about 1500rds of 4100+ to 4200+ fps 50gr loads, the throat has only grown something like .008". Walther says their steel wears longer and I believe it. I've another 22-250AI with a Hart barrel....same riflebuilder/chamber.....same accuracy with both guns. I like the Walther better. I have barrels by 13 or 14 different custom barrelmakers, most of them are chambered. The L-W is as good as any of them.

 

[butchlambert]

I guess that I will leave this alone.

 

[butchlambert]

You must have visited with the same Woody that I have visited with.

 

[butchlambert]

I said I wouldn't step in this, but $h!t. I talked to Woody several years ago about how it would help him if a few of his barrels showed up on the equip. list. I said I knew it would cost a few bucks to put a few barrels in the top shooters hands, but if they showed up on the list he would have the sales. You could tell that Woody's temp was rising. He said he did that and when they won they told everybody that the were shooting Harts or Shilens. Well, that was the end of our conversations.
Some of you may remember about 15 years ago when they had their ill fated romance with Blackstar. They showed up in Houston for a match with their factory shooter. He did last the first day, but tucked his tail and didn't come back to finish the match. Ask Jackie Schmidt about it.
Woody was not really gripe with me, but I got very bad vibes from him.
Donovan, I' not aware of them even winning a club match.

 

[Raythemanroe]

I wonder if being harder has any good effect on barrel life, I would guess it has to do with the ability to withstand heat!

For about 50$ you can get a spectrograph of just about any steel you want from Crucible by sending them a sample. It may not be 100% accurate, but will give you a very good idea of the composition.

With services like that there are no secret steel formula's. There may be secret ways of manipulating the steel, but not the steel itself.

The most stain resistant alloy I know of that is hardnable is 440C with over 2% Cr. The new CPM steels are supposed to be better, but I have no experience with them. Basically the higher the Cr. content the more stainless a steel is, but the weaker it is due to larger grain structure. Anything over 13% is considered stainless by industry standards.

One thing on stainless, on martensitic stainless if it's not heat treated it's not stainless. For the stainless to exhibit stainless properties it has to be hardened. It can then be tempered back a good bit. You may already know this, I have no idea how rifle barrels are heat treated if they are even heat treated.

The heating of ID's surface for microseconds during combustion changes heat treat on that surface. Over time, surface steel flakes and crumbles (microscopically) to create a moonscape of microscopic fissures, cracks, roughness. Eventually, erosion changes ID dimensions beginning at throat.

Abrasion may be A factor in loss of accuracy and barrel life, but it is insignificant in the grand scheme of things compared with heat erosion.

So we look for steels that better withstand this, and the products when we want more durable barrels.

 

[butchlambert]

Ray, I don't know what materialistic stainless happens to be. I think the 300 series of stainless is not heat treatable and the 400 series will heat treat. I was under the impression that Crucible went bankrupt. Did their employees buy them out?

 

[Raythemanroe]

martensitic (auto spell), and they may have. I was under the impression that was where Hart was still getting there steel.

http://centralny.ynn.com/content/video_stories/481571/crucible-union-workers-approve-contract/

 

[BigDMT]

You'd think that for the price of about $100 less than other top barrel manufacturers, if LW barrels with harder steel really did significantly outlast other barrels (and that is the reasoning they state for using harder steel on their website), you'd see them on a lot of varmint rifles or perhaps even competition rifles.

Of course if there is a salesman belittling people on the phone, not many people are gonna give it a shot. I know I wouldn't. But I've never talked to any of them so I cannot comment on that subject.

Now I'm curious though and might call them to see if they really are that stuck up on the phone. If they are, I'll tell them exactly where they can shove their barrels ;D

 

[VaniB]

Yes.... Refer to the Pinocchio comment on page 1, post #3....

The US rep that you will deal with on the phone here at Lothar-Walther is the most patient, sweetest talking, calmest sounding, lieing SOB that I ever had the displeasure to do business with!!! I still get mad as hell over the experience I had with that guy. I've never had a problem with any of the other 5 barrel manufacturers/distributors I've dealt with over the last 10 years, and in fact only have high regards for them and the way they do business; Pac-Nor, White Oak, Krieger, Bartlein and Brux.

 

[Raythemanroe]

I'd like to see somebody else test it or get feed back from somebody that already has! Some one must of replaced a barrel and kept track of shot count and accuracy!

 

[BigDMT]

I'd like to see somebody else test it or get feed back from somebody that already has! Some one must of replaced a barrel and kept track of shot count and accuracy!

There's a ton of accuracy feedback on the thread link that "Phil3" posted on the first page. Nothing but very happy customers from what I read. dont think anyone mentioned tracking barrel life though.

I suppose the snotty salesman wouldnt be too bad to deal with if a person just stated exactly which barrel they wanted, placed the order and nothing else. Just keep the conversation strictly business to avoid any possible confrontation.

 

[Raythemanroe]

I think longer barrel life would be in demand for guys varmint hunting with barrel burners!

 

[BigDMT]

I think longer barrel life would be in demand for guys varmint hunting with barrel burners!

Yeah and also the hunting crowds that like the ultra mags, STW and other big over-bore rounds

 

[Raythemanroe]

Over bore would be a better example! I lean to the over bore cartridges and would find longer barrel life beneficial!

 

[D-mon]

I think Dakota was using them in their 338 lapua long range rifle for that reason.

Nd