Opinions on 6BR chamber!

[Changeling]

Recently I contacted two well known BR gunsmiths about having a barrel chambered and installed,6BR Improved).
I asked if they could guarantee a perfect chamber without any slight to large bulges that you see in the web area on one side from not setting up the equipment correctly. Both gunsmiths did not answer the question!
First off I am not new to having,personal) Ackley type chambers cut. I have personally experienced,my rifles) some real sloppy work,as above), and some absolutely perfect chambers from a local gunsmith that is now not available.
Is there some unknown code that I am not aware of that forbids me from asking for a perfect chamber? I am not kidding in any way shape or form. I don't mean to step on anyone's toes but if I pay for the service I think I should expect expert results.
Changeling

 

[ReedG]

I have never asked him the question, but I can tell you that Mickey Coleman at Coleman Rifles cuts ONLY perfect chambers. I've had two 6 BRs and my nephew just got a 6 PPC, all with the prettiest chambers I've ever seen.

ReedG

 

[Changeling]

You seem to be extremely happy with the chamber work done by Mr. Coleman, and that is good and the way it should be.
However what I want to know is this considered an inappropriate question? If so, I certainly would like an explanation, because I really don't know the answer! I feel It should be OK to ask point blank questions, after all, it's my "$".
I asked the same question as the "above" yesterday to another very well known gunsmith, he sent me his service price list and didn't answer any of my questions. This doesn't give me a feeling of confidence in that kind of attitude or willingness to want this/these people to touch my rifles.

 

[Shelley]

Changeling

I do my own smith work and am happy with my results. But... I don't have a real good feel for your question. I've never cut a chamber that allowed the brass to visably bulge out one side. However, if you are wanting a smith to guarantee that the chamber will have zero runout then you're asking for unreasonable results. Our lathes have small amounts of runout in the bearings. Otherwise the spindle would lock up and would not work.

I demand of myself that my chambers have less than .0004,that's four ten thousands of an inch) runout. Is this your idea of an egg shaped chamber? You might also understand that barrel blanks are not perfect. Some blanks lend themselves to close tolerances and some don't. If I were doing barrel work for the public I would only promise to do my best with the materials avaliable.

Having said that, I also like Mickey Coleman's work. But Mickey nor anyone else, using machinery avaliable today, can guarantee perfection. It just ain't possible.

Sorry
Shelley Davidson

 

[ReedG]

I believe that any of the reputable benchrest-quality gunsmiths, especially those who do work for the best in the business, is going to cut you the best chamber you've ever seen. I read a lot of the posts on benchrest.com, bench-talk.com, and several other boards, and I think the gunsmiths talked about there are all above-average. There is a list of gunsmiths on the benchrest.com home page that would be a good place to start, but don't be in a hurry because these guys are all busy.

With all the variables, though, even top benchrest shooters,like Shelley) who do their own work can't guarantee perfection every time. But I'll "guarantee" that their work is as good as it gets and that's real good. Not one of the top BR 'smiths is going to send you a junk barrel. News like that travels too fast.

There is no great mystery to a 6 BR Improved chamber once you and the gunsmith decide on what the exact specs are you are looking for. Pick a top 'smith and go for it ... you'll be glad you did!

ReedG

 

[SF340Driver]

Is the "bulge" you are referring to seen on your brass or in the chamber? If it is on your brass, this is not that uncommon. The chamber is larger than the brass, so when fired the brass expands to fit. The thinner/weaker side will expand to fit the chamber. The problem lies in getting a reamer that is closer to the actual dimensions of the brass that you intend to use,specifically in the base area of ackley type cartridges which are fireformed). Many reamers are made to SAMMI specs for chambers,actually a size range - min to max) and the brass is made to SAMMI specs for brass,smaller than SAMMI specs for chambers) so there will be no "fit" or chambering problems. Using SAMMI minimum spec reamers,which most BR smiths use) helps with this quite a bit. I have had a number of barrels fitted by BR smiths and I have never had a problem. In fact I have been quite impressed by what they can do. I have a couple of "tactical" comp guns that have larger than SAMMI min chambers so they feed and fire reliably when full of dirt and gunk. The brass fired in these chambers do "bulge" slightly at the base due to this space, but it's the trade off for 100% reliability. BTW: they still shoot regularly in the threes.

Good luck with your project,
Greg

 

[MColeman]

You seem to be extremely happy with the chamber work done by Mr. Coleman, and that is good and the way it should be.
However what I want to know is this considered an inappropriate question? If so, I certainly would like an explanation, because I really don't know the answer! I feel It should be OK to ask point blank questions, after all, it's my "$".
I asked the same question as the "above" yesterday to another very well known gunsmith, he sent me his service price list and didn't answer any of my questions. This doesn't give me a feeling of confidence in that kind of attitude or willingness to want this/these people to touch my rifles.

I appreciate all the kind words spoken of me here. I really do try hard to please.

Now, to answer your question: It is perfectly acceptable to ask a gunsmith if he guarantees a perfect chamber. Where the problem,s) may arise is when you pick whose dictionary you're going to use to define 'perfect'. If all you mean by use of the word 'perfect' is that you don't want any obviously out-of-round chambers with unsightly bulges on one side of the fired case then almost any benchrest gunsmith would say they could deliver that. If, however, you mean will the chamber measure up to some undefined standard then you may have a problem.

Let me tell you of one phone call I received. A man called me and wanted me to rebarrel his Remington. During the conversation he said that his factory Remington was "not shooting as well as he thought it should." This set off an alarm in my head so I asked him just how well he thought a factory Remington should shoot. He replied, "A quarter of inch or less at 100 yards." I told him up front that I was not the least bit interested in working for him. He asked why and I told him that if he expected that from a factory rifle there was no way I could ever make him happy.

After hundreds of calls from customer/prospects you pick up on little things that might make you think you're dealing with someone with unrealistic expectations. Using the word 'perfect' could very well be one of those words. There are few perfect things in this world and I sure ain't one of them but I do work hard to make good rifles.

 

[Changeling]

MColeman. I in no way said anything to imply that I was asking for a "Perfect" case other than not having the lopsided bulge in the web area. This lop sided condition was and is caused by not setting up the equipment correctly or possibly a bad reamer I guess.
The above comments were meant for the use of Minimum Spec reamers only which all BR gunsmiths use except for some one wanting a case with large dimensions as described above for reliability in feeding for there particular reason.
I thoroughly understand where you are coming from when you define some individuals as being "AH's" when it comes to what they expect from a Factory rifle. The gunsmith trade is not the only place you find those type of people!
However I don't think I was being impertinent to ask for a perfect chamber in regard to the bulges on a Custom barrel with BR minimum spec reamers.
If you send me your address I would be glad to send you a case,if i have one left) showing what I mean by an incorrect setup. I wasn't exactly what you would call a happy person when I was told that it was the best that could be done. This was done with a new reamer,I purchased). I eventually found a local gunsmith who corrected the problem, but God rest His sole, had to cut an inch off the barrel to correct the situation it was so bad!

 

[MColeman]

...and I did not mean to imply you had unreasonable expectations. In fact, I've seen many examples of what you describe and think you have pinpointed the problem.

What I was bringing up was too often there is an inadvertant miscommunication simply because we misunderstand what each other means and, too often, assume the worst. That is one of the main reasons I always ask a customer to send me an e-mail describing what he wants and I keep a copy in their file for my reference just so I won't make any more mistakes than I seem to make when I rely on my memory.

When I started gunsmithing some 'old hands' at the game advised me to chamber on centers. When I did it my steady rest always seemed to develop some slack and it bothered me. I then started chambering in the headstock and have not had any problems with oval chambers. It may be this is what happened in your case.

Anyway, your question was not out of line at all and I suspect the gunsmiths that never responded simply 'read' something into your question that you did not intend. Much the same thing happened here when you read something in my post that was not there. It happens all the time to all of us.

 

[Changeling]

MColeman, thanks for replying. I can see why so many people think so highly of you. You have the courtesy and intelligence to confront questions and problems rather than "push them to the back" like a lot of people do. You seem to have the qualities that make for an exacting presence in doing a job correctly, I commend you.
Changeling

 

[MColeman]

Aw, Shucks. You're making me blush.

Thank you for the kind words. One trend I see today is the lax approach to the written word. Words are simply tools and, like tools, they must be used correctly if our intended goals,communication) are to be achieved. It's a pet peeve of mine that people use the wrong word,like 'their' for 'there' and 'Here, Here' when they mean 'Hear! Hear!) and when it's pointed out to them they get huffy and say, "Well, you know what I meant!" That's like me chambering a rifle with excessive headspace and when the case lets go I respond with, "Well, you know what I was trying to do".

I have a high school education and that was gotten in the rural South in the mid '50's. We are supposed to be better educated than ever these days but you would never know it by reading some posts. It's a sad commentary on the public school system of today.

Well, enough 'sermon' for one day. I do appreciate your response and please let me know if I can ever be a friend to you.
Warmest regards,
Mickey
www.colemanrifles.com

 

[jacquemet]

For the chamber, its depend of the use :
- mine, on my Tanner is a bit tight and I do not have any problem in shooting stands !

- but yersterday morning, shooting at long range on an open field range by minus 7 degres Celsius, snow and ice, I got a problem after 30 shots : no way to fully chamber a round and to close the bolt which missed about half a millimimeter in length to close correctly on the round !

- back home after 2 hours and 20 degrees Celsius, no problem at all : everyting was once more OK !

I suppose that the metal,stainless steel) of the barrel is more restrained by low temperature than the metal of neck of the brass cases and that, for an all weather shooting,especially atb lowemperatures, it is necessary to have a chamber wich is not so tight that competition chambers !

 

[Changeling]

Jacquemet, all my chambers are ackley Improved,No turn necks) with minimum case specifications, except for my custom 10/22 Ruger that I built.
I have hunted and shot down to around 10 degrees F with absolutely no problems in any of the high power rifles.
However the 10/22 starts having problems with ejection below about 30 degrees when I squirrel hunt.