Opinions and Experience Needed for the following list of equipment

[squirrelsnpr]

I am wanting to take my reloading to the next level. I was thinking about purchasing the following items:
1. K and M neck turner (and all necessary items that go along with neck turning, ie expanding mandrel, shoulder bump die, etc)
2. Redding neck thickness gauge
3. H and H concentricity gauge/runout gauge for loaded rounds
4. Sinclair concentricity gauge for brass only - I dont know if this is going to be needed
5. Tempilaq - I believe 750 degrees
6. and eventually a Ken Light annealing machine, until then I'm doing it manually.

Let me know if you have any experience with any of these products or have any suggestions to others you believe are better for the job.

Thanks,
Mitch

 

[fdshuster]

Mitch: I have and use items# 1 and 4, so am able to comment on those only. (1) Yes, am basically happy with the K&M outside neck turner, and it really is controllable in depth of cut to within .0001", as advertised. Do not like the screwdriver handle though. No matter how tight I make it, it will always come lose about half-way thru the cut. For that reason I prefer, and use the V-block clamp-on handle (like a tap and die handle) that came with my Sinclair NT-1000. It firmly grips the case across the case head in front of the extractor groove. I also prefer the K&M expanding and turning mandrels. The Sinclair mandrels are held in the die body with a very small socket head set screw, and when necking up (220 Russian to 6ppc), the mandrel will pull out of the die body and be stuck in the case. With the vertical mounted screw into the top of the mandrel, it is impossible for the mandrel to pull out. Wish the body of the K&M cutter were a little larger for a better grip, and for that reason keep the length-of-cut stop attached, even though it's not needed once adjusted. Overall, a very good tool. (2) Have both the Sinclair and RCBS dial indicator runout gauges, and prefer the Sinclair, mainly because of their hardened steel ball bearings (non-movable). The V-blocks on my RCBS are wearing with deep "tracks" now, and I do get approx. .001" to .002" larger readings with the RCBS, when comparing the same loaded round. Sinclair is more durable over a long period of time and use.

 

[squirrelsnpr]

fdshuster thanks for the advise. The RCBS tool you are talking about is the "Case Master"?

 

[mikecr]

You aren't gonna 'go up' much higher than Sinclair..

Sinclair concentricity gauge is excellent, and provides the best readings.
http://www.sinclairintl.com/product/5577/Concentricity-Gauges
I say best, because runout is not masked with it like others.
Your runout is not low until measured as such on a Sinclair.

Sinclair turning 'system' is more complete than any other, and IMO better than most.
http://www.sinclairintl.com/product/11178/Neck-Turning-Tools
Their mandrel system leaves the necks at the right size for reloading, and provides uses beyond turning.
The cutters have large open bodies that allow visibility while cutting, and ease of cleaning. There is no science to adjusting them, just use feeler gauges.
Cutters available cheap with different angles, and same with mandrels(including hardened). The expander dies have been improved to capture the mandrels. I use these after neck sizing, just prior to bullet seating, and for case forming.

Sinclair thickness gauge is well thought out and easy to use.
http://www.sinclairintl.com/product/8970/Micrometers
Has it's own stand, is angled for ease of readings/checks.

Sinclair 'NUT'(no idea why they call it a bullet comparator) is the simplest solution to setting and verifying your seating depths. http://www.sinclairintl.com/product/5581/Bullet-Comparators
I can't imagine a reloading bench without one.

Sinclair does offer some things that should be completely avoided though. So ask around before choosing stuff, just like you're doing here(smart).
As far as annealing, I'm hoping the innovative shooters here will perfect their induction approach:
http://www.accurateshooter.com/forum/index.php/topic,3736674.0.html

 

[RJinTexas]

I'd go for the Sinclair tools for everything except the neck turner, you simply can't beat the K&N tool, especially their expanders and carbide mandrels. I've found once I've got one set up properly I hate to change it so I just buy another tool. I much prefer to use a power screwdriver in conjunction with Sinclair's driver #05-200 & universal caseholder #05-280, remember to order a Lee Auto Prime set if you chose to use the universal caseholder, they also sell designated size caseholder at 14.75 ea. This so much easier then turning by hand, believe me you'll be thankful you did after neck turning a hundred or so cases.

Regards
RJ

 

[fdshuster]

Mitch: Yes, the RCBS tool is called the "Casemaster". First one bought, then about 2 yrs. later got the Sinclair. mikecr: Yes, I use feeler gauges to set the cutter depth on my NT-1000, but how do you accurately (and without trial and error) set the cutter to .0125", for example? The Sinclair is kept adjusted at a permanent setting now, for the 6ppc, and use the K&M for the 22BR, 6BR's etc. that require different neck wall thicknesses. Never got involved in power tool neck turning, case length trimming, etc. For me, it's just too easy to remove too much metal. I'll outside neck turn 10 or 20 cases, walk away for a while, and come back later and do a few more. Seldom need more than 20 or 40 anyway. I'm still using the majority of the original Lapua brass cases (220 Russian to 6ppc) that I started with in 1998, 6ppc. That barrel is scheduled for replacement by my 'smith any day now, so most of the original brass actually outlasted the life of the barrel. 28 + loadings before hard bolt lift/clicking at the top of bolt lift becomes a problem. No big deal.

 

[Rust]

I have both the Sinclair Cocentricity Gauge and the RCBS Casemaster. The reason I have both is I wanted something better than the RCBS and the Sinclair proved to be superior to the RCBS for measuring runout on cases or loaded rounds. Simple well thought out tool that works.

 

[pdog2225]

Ken Light annealing machine! I have used mine for 3 years and highly reccomend it. I tried doing it by hand using a lazy susan to turn the cases but could not keep the flame the same distance or height each time plus it was real slow. Now after annealing a batch of cases they are all alike. I anneal after each firing, because for me it removes any doubt about the cases in the entire batch. My ammo is more consistant than it was before the KL. I see this in the numbers when I shoot through my chronogragh (Oehler 35p). I think this is the cadillac of annealing machines (1000 per hour). pdog2225

 

[squirrelsnpr]

pdog when you get tired of having great confidence in your brass let me know. I'd be willing to take the KL machine off your hands. HAHA. Thanks for all the info

 

[fdshuster]

squirrelsnpr: We had a like new, used Ken Light annealer go thru an estate sale here last Summer. Most did not even have any idea what it was, or used for. Could have been bought for virtually nothing, have no idea what happened to it, all is "gone" now, but you may be able to find one at an estate/ garage type sale. Just a thought.

 

[mikecr]

There is always trial & error in cutter settings, and there is always plenty of brass to adjust on.
I gave away my K&M turning system because it required neck IDs larger than bullet diameter for turning. This left me having to size before and after turning, and with no use for it's expander at all. It is also too small. I really like K&M tools, but IMO they didn't think through their turning system. It happened that I also had Sinclair's, and this won all the way around.

I'm very good with the Sinclair now, and ultimately whatever we're good at we should stick with. If your better with a K&M, or a pumpkin, that's the ticket.

 

[laveritt]

PM sent.

 

[laveritt]

All of you guys offer valuable insight based on your personal experiences with the various equipment mentioned.

Additionally, precision measuring tools are required to make all the necessary adjustments for the desired neck wall thickness and OA neck diameter after turning and with a seated bullet in place.

If you're starting out-- don't forget to budget for the measuring tools. Good ones aren't cheap, but they are a must have.