I recently got some .223 LC once fired brass, so as always I use a case gauge to make sure I full-length size and trim to get it back to SAMMI specs or fit correctly in case gauge. After first firing I back it off .~.002 or .003 depending on if I'm putting in my AR or bolt action. Well this time I had once fired LC and did as described above and I got one case head separation in my bolt action. Luckily, I didn't notice any damage or anything, but I don't see how I could've worked the brass that much to get it ready for my first firing through my bolt to cause that. I inspect all my cases that come in. Any ideas?
Once fired LC, case head separation on first firing?
- Thread starter CovertGunny
- Start date
Did you measure how much you had to bump the shoulder on the once-fired brass? Perhaps it was used in a machine gun and was really long to start with?
bigedp51
CovertGunny
1. If you weren't the one who removed the primer and the military crimp it wasn't once fired brass.
2. If the LC ammunition was fired in a machine gun the chamber is .004 larger in diameter than SAAMI standards and the headspace setting was also much longer.
3. If the LC brass was loaded by Federal the brass was rejected during quality control inspections at Lake City and the cases were loaded by Federal in Minnesota.
4. When you buy once fired brass make sure your buying brass fired by the military and not Federal range pickup brass sold by other companies.
Always remember even if it has a LC stamp, it doesn't mean the brass wasn't rejected by the military and sold by Federal. Military brass has to pass many different inspections from being to soft or too hard, case wall uniformity, weight, etc. And many people think that the Federal .223 ammunition was loaded at Lake City when in fact the cases are rejected seconds.
A well known AR15 gun school owner refuses to stock Federal 5.56 ammunition because of the problems with using this ammo during their three day course.
The government and the military are not allowed to sell loaded military ammunition to civilians.
1. If you weren't the one who removed the primer and the military crimp it wasn't once fired brass.
2. If the LC ammunition was fired in a machine gun the chamber is .004 larger in diameter than SAAMI standards and the headspace setting was also much longer.
3. If the LC brass was loaded by Federal the brass was rejected during quality control inspections at Lake City and the cases were loaded by Federal in Minnesota.
4. When you buy once fired brass make sure your buying brass fired by the military and not Federal range pickup brass sold by other companies.
Always remember even if it has a LC stamp, it doesn't mean the brass wasn't rejected by the military and sold by Federal. Military brass has to pass many different inspections from being to soft or too hard, case wall uniformity, weight, etc. And many people think that the Federal .223 ammunition was loaded at Lake City when in fact the cases are rejected seconds.
A well known AR15 gun school owner refuses to stock Federal 5.56 ammunition because of the problems with using this ammo during their three day course.
The government and the military are not allowed to sell loaded military ammunition to civilians.
This is the problem with brass that has been fired from unknown guns. If that gun has an overly long headspace, the brass will stretch to chamber dimensions if the round fired was loaded hot. Once this happens, the case is doomed to end up with the premature case head separation fate. There is nothing you can do to prevent this..
The only thing you can do is to measure for unusual case stretching with the "paper clip test" and discard the case if thinning is present.
The only thing you can do is to measure for unusual case stretching with the "paper clip test" and discard the case if thinning is present.
searcher
Gold $$ Contributor
As touched on by Jlow - best to do the paperclip test on any brass that has been fired and you are not positive a stray may have gotten into the mix - regardless of the source. That one case could have been fired a half dozen times with major pressure - just needing one more bang to come apart.
bigedp51
I thought the paper clip method died out with Neanderthal man, you people at accurate shooter should have a gauge for every occasion. Now show me a paper clip that measures down to a thousandths of an inch in the web area.
And remember, the trick is to not let the brass stretch in the first place.
And also a paper clip can leave you with a lot of
Sorry I have too many photos and animated gif images I need to use or else they go stale. ;D
And remember, the trick is to not let the brass stretch in the first place.
And also a paper clip can leave you with a lot of
Sorry I have too many photos and animated gif images I need to use or else they go stale. ;D
MGYSGT
Silver $$ Contributor
I had a lot of LC new unfired brass that I had the same problem with. About 1 in 20 would show the burn line at the separation point. None actually came apart, but I could break them in half with my hand. I just threw them away and continued to use the rest. Haven't had any problems with the survivors of the Lot.
tom
tom
bigedp51
searcher said:
In the picture I posted of my Case Mastering Gauge the probe tip has been stoned down to where it no longer scratches the inside of the cases. Meaning I can be far less "diligent" and even drink a six pack of beer while gauging the cases. :
Below, two six pack of beer and not even aware of what diligent means.
Scratches inside of a sectioned factory loaded Winchester .303 case, the case stretched and thinned .009. I thought I might be feeling something with a bent paperclip so I went out and bought the RCBS Case Mastering Gauge and scratched the first case I used in the gauge. A simple light stoning of the tip fixed the scratching problem and then you can forget being "diligent" and go full speed ahead. 
The drunken Yuengling beer word of the day is "diligent"
dil·i·gent
ˈdiləjənt
adjective
having or showing care and conscientiousness in one's work or duties.
"the reloader was very diligent in not spilling his Yuengling beer"
NOTICE: No runout gauges or Yuengling beer bottles were hurt or injured during the making of this posting.
So, as I'm sure you are aware there are a number of websites out there selling LC brass. What should I look for in their source? Once fired military brass?
Actually the sharpened paper clip is a pretty good indicator of the possibility of incipient separation, I use this method on all my fire formed brass when first created because it is quick/cheap/reliable information the reloader can feel and mentally use.
CovertGunny said:
I think whenever you are dealing with once fired, unless you are the one that shot them, then it is usually range pickup and there is really no way to be 100% sured that they are really once fired. If you have to go that route, do the bent paperclip thing and don't load them too hot.
bigedp51 said:
The problem is that Federal 556 ammos are loaded too hot. There's a trickle of Kabooms being reported on the AR forums.
As far as brass separation? Just one case? I'd let it go. You can tell when you're really working a case back down to size. I toss those into the recycle bucket on the spot.
Occasional case separations are just going to happen from time to time.
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