Old powder good or bad....

[Potenza]

Hello, I'd like to know if there are good ways to tell if powder is still usable. I have 17 lbs of different brands, some in old Hodgdon cardboard containers that are 30 years old. I've opened a few and the scent is excellent, like new powder. I want to sell it, but only if it's still usable. Thank you for your help!

 

[Big Mc]

Hello, I'd like to know if there are good ways to tell if powder is still usable. I have 17 lbs of different brands, some in old Hodgdon cardboard containers that are 30 years old. I've opened a few and the scent is excellent, like new powder. I want to sell it, but only if it's still usable. Thank you for your help!

IF was keept in a dry place ,You should be good to go. I have some from 1963 still goes bang.. Tommy Mc

 

[Ken6PPC]

If your nose isn't irritated by the smell, it is probably OK. If it has been in contact with metal, you will likely see rust if it has gone bad.

Most buyers will be wary of old powders though. If 17 lbs of gun powder ignite in your house, you will have a VERY bad day.

I once bought an old 8 lb. jug of Hodgdon powder that rusted the cap on the inside before I had a chance to actually use it, and it developed a little more acid smell than I felt comfortable with. I dumped it on the lawn for fertilizer, and figured the money I lost was just additional homeowner's insurance.

 

[Shawlerbrook]

Been told rancid smell, change in color or clumping are signs powder went bad. Agreed if stored properly it will last a long time.

 

[Ken6PPC]

 

[ricco1949]

Smell test and fire some loads to test velocity.

I just repurposed about 6-7 pounds of 760, 3031, 4198 from the 80's for PDn in 222 and 223.

My inner-tube research indicated that old powder that still smells ok does not become unsafe to fire...it's just slower.

It was about 100-200 fps slower than manuals from that era indicated it should be.

It still grouped 1/2" +/- so GTG.

 

[Charlie-NY]

I'd be reluctant to use or sell any powder that old. But ... that's just me. The tomatoes will need a boost next spring so it wouldn't go to waste.

 

[ricco1949]

I'd be reluctant to use or sell any powder that old. But ... that's just me. The tomatoes will need a boost next spring so it wouldn't go to waste.

I wouldn't sell it either.....fire at my own risk only.

 

[Knotwild]

It can be bad/ugly.

 

[Fire Dog]

I wouldn't sell it either.....fire at my own risk only.

Since most powder sales are F2F, depending on where Potenza lives the market may be very limited in regards to selling very old powder… It would need to be a super bargain and clearly stated to the purchaser that it was old and possibly not of good quality.
I had a serious issue with some double base 748 that was about 35 years old still in a sealed can, the one with the conical top metal can with the screw lid…
A loading book mild load in a 308 produced a blast that blew gas back out the side port and around the end of the bolt… The extracted case had the primer just fall out…!!
A week later at the same range someone else had the same experience with old 748 in a 243 that destroyed the rifle and stock!
Fortunately the folks on the benches on either side were not injured though the shooter suffered burns and some minor facial lacerations.
Speculation is that the Nitroglycerin in the double based powder had separated/become unstable over time even though the powder appeared to be in perfect condition.

 

[Fire Dog]

It can be bad/ugly.View attachment 1728343

Also corrosive to anything stored with it as well… Looks like your powder measure is stuffed..!!

 

[M-61]

I want to sell it, but only if it's still usable. Thank you for your help!

17 pounds. What is the total amount? Foreign country. Unknown condition.
Do yourself a favour. Use it or get rid of it.
If anything at went wrong I see a lawsuit. Or probably lawsuits. And what if the end user doesn’t use it for reloading?
There’s not enough money involved that would make the risk even close.

 

[Dave Way]

It’s really not worth taking chances. I almost never sell opened powder. The exception may be an 8 pound jug that’s less than a year old according to the date stamp. Besides, it makes beautiful colors when you burn it!

Dave.

 

[hipp2412]

I still have powder in original cardboard containers. Still works great… it’s all in how you store it..

 

[jk80]

I'm still shooting 4895 pull down surplus i bought when I was 18. I'm 68 now and down to the last few pounds. I was sold to me in a brown paper bag and I put it in coffee cans. When I started loading almost all powder came in cardboard canisters.

 

[Webster]

I still have powder in original cardboard containers. Still works great… it’s all in how you store it..

Hello, I'd like to know if there are good ways to tell if powder is still usable. I have 17 lbs of different brands, some in old Hodgdon cardboard containers that are 30 years old. I've opened a few and the scent is excellent, like new powder. I want to sell it, but only if it's still usable. Thank you for your help!
View attachment 1728370

It's not just a storage condition problem. Nitrocellulose is made by treating cellulose with nitric and sulphuric acid. After the nitrocellulose is created all residual unreacted acid has to be washed away. There is a spec for how much residual acid can remain. If I remember from years ago, I believe it has to be below something like less than .9 wt. % . Higher levels create storage problems. My guess is the bad powder was from batches where the manufacturer didn’t want to toss powder that was out of spec.

There is a write up on the spec somewhere on internet. I'll look for it. The spec is 0.06% by wt. residual acid.

https://alpenfalke.com/comprehensive-guide-to-the-manufacturing-process-of-nitrocellulose/

Acidity and Ash Content: Low acidity (as H2SO4)% (e.g., ≤0.06%) and low ash content (e.g., ≤0.2%) are indicators of purity. Residual acids can degrade the Nitrocellulose over time and affect stability, while ash content reflects inorganic impurities. For manufacturers demanding high stability and purity, these are vital specifications to check when inquiring about Nitrocellulose price and availability.


ADDED Later:

Everything You Need to Know About Nitrocellulose: From Manufacturing to Applications - Alpenfalke

Nitrocellulose is a fascinating material that has played a pivotal role in various industries for over a century. Derived from cellulose, nitrocellulose is a

alpenfalke.com

Nitrocellulose, also known as cellulose nitrate, is an organic polymer obtained through the nitration of cellulose with nitric acid. Its molecular formula, (C6H7N3O11)n, represents its chemically modified structure. Nitrocellulose is typically seen as white or slightly yellow fibrous material, soluble in organic solvents like acetone and ethanol but insoluble in water.

Guys keep saying throw it in the garden for fertilizer. It isn't water souluble. Look at the MSDS for gun powder. It contains many chemicals. I don't think I would want some of the strange chemicals in my vegetables. I'm a fire bug, I like to light it up to get rid of it.

 

[Laurie]

I had a look at this subject a couple of years back after finding some older IMR-3031 had started to produce an orange dust.

https://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?p=4025

 

[Syncrowave]

Guys keep saying throw it in the garden for fertilizer. It isn't water souluble.

Yep. Black powder makes OK fertilizer -- the potassium nitrate contains lots of N.
And if you can live with the sulfur reducing the pH of your soil, the charcoal isn't a bad soil amendment.

But smokeless isn't going to do much of anything for your garden plants, and I suspect it will take a fairly long time to break down due to UV exposure...kinda like plastic.

 

[M-61]

I had a look at this subject a couple of years back after finding some older IMR-3031 had started to produce an orange dust.

https://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?p=4025

Thank you for an interesting article.
For me the bold type “Do not keep old or salvaged powders “ says it all.
I noticed they certainly did not refer to purchasing powders from an unknown source with absolutely no idea how they were stored. In all likelihood the seller does not know the entire history of the powder he is selling either.
I was once given by a nice gentleman a wooden case full of powders that he had found in his house. ( he does not reload)
Some of the powders I didn’t even know of.
The one thing I knew was the value I place on my fingers and eyes. I disposed of the powders and kept the wooden box which was in beautiful shape and marked
‘Canuck - Dominion’
As an armorer for many years I didn’t shed a tear dumping the powder, and I still have box. I consider it a wise move.

 

[FDCaptain]

I had a look at this subject a couple of years back after finding some older IMR-3031 had started to produce an orange dust.

https://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?p=4025

Same problem, orange dust = rust from container, use it for fertilizer.