OAL All Over The Place ???

[Phil3]

I am loading some 223 Sierra MatchKing 52 grain flat based bullets into new Lapua brass with Forster Co-Ax press and Forster micrometer bullet seater. The OAL can varies a LOT, in my opinion. It is completely random. I get rounds from .2.245 to 2.259, a whopping .014" variance. Nothing feels out of the ordinary. ???

Phil

 

[stool]

if you are measuring from case base to the tip of the bullet
STOP
YOU CANNOT WIN THAT BATTLE..IT IS THE WRONG MEASURMENT.
YOU NEED A STONEY POINT TYPE OGIVE MEASURING TOOL
bullets in a lot will vary a bunch to the tip from the base of the bullet

 

[Phil3]

I will measure that way. I just did not think the OAL would be THAT varied. I have the tool to measure from the ogive and will check that now.

Phil

 

[Phil3]

I measured four rounds for OAL. These weren't bad, only .003" variance. But the ogive varied by .005". Now, it is easy to apply too much caliper pressure and jam the round into the measuring tool, throwing the measurement off. I need to go back and find rounds that were way out on OAL and see how they do on the ogive. Too late for me to start doing that now.

Thanks.

Phil

 

[37Lincoln1]

Look at the bullet tips on those. Put them in your calipers and you will see that they do not sit level at the tip/caliper jaw. One side will be higher, giving you your inconsistent readings. They are not uniform and account for the differences in your OAL. Measuring at the ogive is the only way to do this unless you want to trim the meplat.

 

[boltgunluvr]

Phil......the Hornady comparators work well too. Btw...the 52 SMK is boattail and the 53 SMK is flat base. I use the 53 SMK & 55 SPT. Both are freakin phenomenal.

 

[Raythemanroe]

Take your base to ogive tool and sort a few rounds in batches and load some of those and measure OAL using the ogive not the tips..Then tell us your findings

 

[Raythemanroe]

I would like to ask a couple questions, When you say new cases are you saying not fire formed? Are these trimmed to length cases? I wouldn't get to picky until you have fire formed cases and trimmed to length..JMHO

 

[NorCalMikie]

And make "sure" the bullet tips arn't bottoming out in the seater stem. That's where the "ogive "measurement comes into play.

 

[Phil3]

Raythemanroe,

The cases are not fireformed. Straight out of the box. Not been trimmed, as they are OK on length.

NorCalMikie,

I took the die apart to check the seating stem fit on the bullet. It contacts the bullet around the ogive. Certainly not on the tip. It was when I took the die apart and tried to adjust for my press that I found I made a huge very stupid mistake I made some time earlier. A while ago ago, I took the die apart to clean and lube. The sleeve is threaded which has the lock ring on it. That sleeve can screw into the micrometer top from either end. One part of the sleeve body has a gap in the threads.

http://www.forsterproducts.com/client_images/catalog19938/pages/files/Ultra_Micrometer_Seater_Die.pdf

See part O-30*. Note the gap in the threads. I put the sleeve in backwards!!! :-[ The die still works, but I had wondered why it very nearly did not fit in my Forster Co-Ax press, and wondered why there was a gap in the threads, right where the lock ring would go. Doh! Because I was too dumb to watch what I was doing when I took it apart! I feel like I can't put a screw and nut together without screwing it up. This from a guy who years ago built race car engines...which stayed together.

In any event, I reassembled the die, the RIGHT way, and reseated the bullets. I had left a bunch too long so I could hopefully seat them later to a consistent depth. And that is precisely what happened. Even using the bullet tip, all are within .004" or so, far, far better than before. I am not sure how or why the properly reassembled die improved things, but it did. And, it fits the Co-Ax press without any trouble.

Please excuse me while I go find some anti-dumb medication... :-[

Phil

 

[NorCalMikie]

Anti-dumb medication?? If you can't find yours, I'll lend you mine. Bet you won't put the die back together that way? We're never too old to learn. ;D

 

[jonbearman]

Things like this happen to everyone.We all learn by making mistakes.An old guy told me that if you dont make mistakes then you arent working.

 

[Shynloco]

Phil......the Hornady comparators work well too. Btw...the 52 SMK is boattail and the 53 SMK is flat base. I use the 53 SMK & 55 SPT. Both are freakin phenomenal.

+1. I get a max variance of .002 using the ojive measurement. Gotta believe some of that is the result of varying pressure placed on the bullet surface through human error.

 

[Phil3]

I agree. Easy to move the caliper measurement with more pressure on the tool. And I don't have calibrated hands! - Phil

 

[thefitter]

There are threads out there about the Forster and tricks and tweeks people have done to them to get better results.

Not to muddy the issue but I got rid of my Forster seater and went with the wilson and an arbor press. Still need to measure at ogive but I get more consistency.

 

[Raythemanroe]

There are threads out there about the Forster and tricks and tweeks people have done to them to get better results.

Not to muddy the issue but I got rid of my Forster seater and went with the wilson and an arbor press. Still need to measure at ogive but I get more consistency.

What kind of arbor press? I have been thinking about that route..Hart, K&N, Sinclair, Harrel, 21st Century, I have heard Sinclair has had durability problems?

 

[bdale]

I got the Hart myself, probably not any better than the rest at the intended purpose but it sure does look cool 8)

 

[thefitter]

There are threads out there about the Forster and tricks and tweeks people have done to them to get better results.

Not to muddy the issue but I got rid of my Forster seater and went with the wilson and an arbor press. Still need to measure at ogive but I get more consistency.

What kind of arbor press? I have been thinking about that route..Hart, K&N, Sinclair, Harrel, 21st Century, I have heard Sinclair has had durability problems?

Harrel heavy duty model. It is beefier and has a longer handle. It's kind of a special order, if they have the parts.

 

[Raythemanroe]

There are threads out there about the Forster and tricks and tweeks people have done to them to get better results.

Not to muddy the issue but I got rid of my Forster seater and went with the wilson and an arbor press. Still need to measure at ogive but I get more consistency.

What kind of arbor press? I have been thinking about that route..Hart, K&N, Sinclair, Harrel, 21st Century, I have heard Sinclair has had durability problems?

Harrel heavy duty model. It is beefier and has a longer handle. It's kind of a special order, if they have the parts.

I only see one: http://harrellsprec.com/index.php/products/harrell-tooling-arbor-press-by-henry-harrell

 

[thefitter]

There are threads out there about the Forster and tricks and tweeks people have done to them to get better results.

Not to muddy the issue but I got rid of my Forster seater and went with the wilson and an arbor press. Still need to measure at ogive but I get more consistency.

What kind of arbor press? I have been thinking about that route..Hart, K&N, Sinclair, Harrel, 21st Century, I have heard Sinclair has had durability problems?

Harrel heavy duty model. It is beefier and has a longer handle. It's kind of a special order, if they have the parts.

I only see one: http://harrellsprec.com/index.php/products/harrell-tooling-arbor-press-by-henry-harrell

Call Lynwood Monday and ask, it's not publicized. And like I said they might not have all the parts at this moment. I think it's worth it though. I use it for everything from 6.5mmCM to .338LM