NRA new 2019 E Target 7 second delay rule?

[GSS]

I'm a Service Rifle sling shooter but there have been some conversations from the local prone shooters with confusion if the new 7 second delay rule on E targets only applies to F Class Shooters or F Class and FTR.

Anyone with a definitive answer?

How has it been interpreted at Prone matches in your area?

https://competitions.nra.org/media/7934/2019-high-power-update.pdf

https://rulebooks.nra.org/documents/pdf/compete/RuleBooks/HPR/hpr-book.pdf

 

[FatBoy]

Just because there is a 7 second delay doesn't mean the target doesn't record shots. If you know you have conditions you could run 20 rounds down range in 3 minutes and wait for the display to catch up.

 

[RDA72927]

Just because there is a 7 second delay doesn't mean the target doesn't record shots. If you know you have conditions you could run 20 rounds down range in 3 minutes and wait for the display to catch up.

Nope, the target will record shots within the 7 second widow as a Miss...

 

[Snuggie]

^^^
That is correct sir! The target will not reappear until after the 7 seconds. Don’t know about you folks but I actually take more than 7 seconds even when I’m shooting fast. I’m referring to the ShotMarker targets.

 

[chkunz]

I shoot conventional prone (sling) and when conditions are favorable I shoot the shot within one second of when the target comes up for paper, pulled targets. The guys in the pits tell me that I shoot the target before it is fully up but that is an exaggeration. If I am keeping the shots in the 10 and X ring and have good pit service I shoot faster than the 7 seconds delay specified for etargets. So why am I now penalized by a 7 second delay with etargets?

We high power rifle competitors no longer shoot flint locks, we no longer shoot muzzle loaders, we no longer are restricted to the 30 06 cartridge, we no longer shoot a five V target, we no longer stand for rapids, we have no idea what a service rifle is, etc., etc.., etc., so why the 7 sec delay? This will not stand. We are moving to etargets so lets let etargets be all they can be.

My Grandmother thought me, "Be not the first the new to try and not the last the old to lay aside".

 

[RDA72927]

I shoot conventional prone (sling) and when conditions are favorable I shoot the shot within one second of when the target comes up for paper, pulled targets. The guys in the pits tell me that I shoot the target before it is fully up but that is an exaggeration. If I am keeping the shots in the 10 and X ring and have good pit service I shoot faster than the 7 seconds delay specified for etargets. So why am I now penalized by a 7 second delay with etargets?

We high power rifle competitors no longer shoot flint locks, we no longer shoot muzzle loaders, we no longer are restricted to the 30 06 cartridge, we no longer shoot a five V target, we no longer stand for rapids, we have no idea what a service rifle is, etc., etc.., etc., so why the 7 sec delay? This will not stand. We are moving to etargets so lets let etargets be all they can be.

My Grandmother thought me, "Be not the first the new to try and not the last the old to lay aside".

Because a several folks think that shooting fast on E-Targets is cheating, that it should be like you are shooting a good pit service. Not Great pit service. Of course, most pit service I've had is around 10 to 15 seconds. But just a heads up, you're barking up the WRONG tree. They might change the window to 10 seconds, wait, there are already some that do...

Robert

 

[J F Johannes]

 

[Medic505]

I'm all for a delay. 7 second pit service at some of the club matches I've attended would be considered outstanding. E targets should have a delay as to where the following shot lands. Such as, you shoot an X and follow with a X, you get 7 seconds. You shoot a X and follow with a 7 you get 12 seconds. Much like your puller looking for your shot. Aren't we trying to mimic actual pit service?

 

[Monte F]

Seven second delay applies only to F-class (open and TR). Firing during the delay is scored as a miss per the 2019 rules linked above.

 

[Ned Ludd]

I shoot conventional prone (sling) and when conditions are favorable I shoot the shot within one second of when the target comes up for paper, pulled targets. The guys in the pits tell me that I shoot the target before it is fully up but that is an exaggeration. If I am keeping the shots in the 10 and X ring and have good pit service I shoot faster than the 7 seconds delay specified for etargets. So why am I now penalized by a 7 second delay with etargets?

We high power rifle competitors no longer shoot flint locks, we no longer shoot muzzle loaders, we no longer are restricted to the 30 06 cartridge, we no longer shoot a five V target, we no longer stand for rapids, we have no idea what a service rifle is, etc., etc.., etc., so why the 7 sec delay? This will not stand. We are moving to etargets so lets let etargets be all they can be.

My Grandmother thought me, "Be not the first the new to try and not the last the old to lay aside".

Complaining about the 7-second delay already? It has even officially gone into effect as yet. Nonetheless, it WILL stand, as the the sanctioning body (NRA) has decreed that it is now part of the Highpower rules, meaning both Conventional shooters and F-Class. If you want to machine gun rounds downrange, start a new sport of your own and don't try to totally change the way the existing sport has been since the very beginning. It's bad enough that e-targets are already changing the way the game is played. The fact is that there are few target pullers on the planet quick enough to ever allow you to ever take shots much faster than approximately every 7 seconds; don't try to claim otherwise because it simply isn't so. Be satisfied with what you have in regard that e-targets are approved for use at all.

 

[GSS]

Seven second delay applies only to F-class (open and TR). Firing during the delay is scored as a miss per the 2019 rules linked above.

Thank You as that basically was my question and reason for the thread, if the new currently in effect rule applies to F Class ONLY or BOTH F and FTR.

I do have the question into Aaron Farmer for clarification as well but I received the auto reply below

--------------------------
I am currently out of the office for the World Shooting Championship and will be returning on September 24th. I will return your email as soon as possible. If have questions regarding the WSC please call me at 703-267-1475 and leave a detailed message if I do not get to your call.

Aaron Farmer
Deputy Director

 

[FatBoy]

Nope, the target will record shots within the 7 second widow as a Miss...

Which target system does this? Or do you mean the scorer just jots down a 0?

And Clyde, you do shoot withing .0004 seconds of the carrier touching the stops. Maybe faster.

 

[savageshooter86]

There’s a competition for machine gunning. It’s calked Benchrest

 

[6fatrat]

Agree with savageshooter 86.
I stopped going to the Mid west Palma because of the no delay.
The 7 second delay will make you a better wind reader.
Steve Bair

 

[r bose]

I'm a service rifle/palma/any-any prone/sling shooter. The club I shoot at regularly, just last weekend installed and used for the first time shotmarker targets and everyone used the 7 second delay.

I'm not up on all the rules and frankly, when I try to become more informed, it's so confusing and contradictory I give up. I've heard different opinions about different paper target sizes, national records not being recorded at times, service rifle configurations differing, what's right and wrong depending on CMP or NRA rules, etc etc etc. It's exhausting. I think the interpretation of the rules is now left up to the match director in most cases. And, with e targets using 1 server/computer I'm not sure if f-class and prone shooters could use the e-targets simultaneously? All I know is that's the direction the world is heading so depending on where I'm shooting, I'll rely on the match official to decide what's going on.

An e-target issue I saw this year was a Palma shooter's rounds were not being recorded even thou they were going thru the middle of the paper at 1000 yards. Apparently your bullet must be traveling 1325-1335 FPS (forgot the exact speed we were told) at the target. Anyone shooting palma, 308 cal, knows at sea level, that speed at 1000 yards is very difficult to maintain.

 

[chkunz]

Complaining about the 7-second delay already? It has even officially gone into effect as yet. Nonetheless, it WILL stand, as the the sanctioning body (NRA) has decreed that it is now part of the Highpower rules, meaning both Conventional shooters and F-Class. If you want to machine gun rounds downrange, start a new sport of your own and don't try to totally change the way the existing sport has been since the very beginning. It's bad enough that e-targets are already changing the way the game is played. The fact is that there are few target pullers on the planet quick enough to ever allow you to ever take shots much faster than approximately every 7 seconds; don't try to claim otherwise because it simply isn't so. Be satisfied with what you have in regard that e-targets are approved for use at all.

Ned, I should have read the rules before I commented. The new 2020 rules referenced above have been modified to make it clear that the 7 second delay applies to F Class. Since I do not shoot F Class I should not comment and leave you guys to define your sport without my input. In the words of Gilda Radner, "never mind!" All is well, Clyde.




i

 

[GSS]

I'm a Service Rifle sling shooter but there have been some conversations from the local prone shooters with confusion if the new 7 second delay rule on E targets only applies to F Class Shooters or F Class and FTR.

Anyone with a definitive answer?

How has it been interpreted at Prone matches in your area?

https://competitions.nra.org/media/7934/2019-high-power-update.pdf

https://rulebooks.nra.org/documents/pdf/compete/RuleBooks/HPR/hpr-book.pdf

View attachment 1126694

I am under the impression these rules all went into effect when they were released.

Including the 7 second delay that I created this thread to ask if it only applied to F class rifles ONLY or BOTH F Class and FTR rifles. ( Not Sling Shooters )
( only exception is as stated under #11 where Licensed and Certified E targets will not be until Jan 2020 )

https://competitions.nra.org/competition-resources/rule-books/

https://competitions.nra.org/media/7934/2019-high-power-update.pdf

I was wondering how others here and at your local clubs have interpreted and applied the new 7 second rule?

F Class Only?
F Class and FTR Only?
All shooters (including sling) in Prone matches?

I will post here what I get for a response from Aaron Farmer regarding if
the 7 second delay only applies to F class rifles ONLY or BOTH F Class and FTR rifles. ( Not Sling Shooters )

 

[243Mendoza]

...

An e-target issue I saw this year was a Palma shooter's rounds were not being recorded even thou they were going thru the middle of the paper at 1000 yards. Apparently your bullet must be traveling 1325-1335 FPS (forgot the exact speed we were told) at the target. Anyone shooting palma, 308 cal, knows at sea level, that speed at 1000 yards is very difficult to maintain.

Yes that is a problem that can occur. As and aside, for the open face etargets, Palma or FTR competitors using the 155gr class bullet need to avoid the old Sierra 155 and Nosler 155 at 1000yds.

 

[Ned Ludd]

I am under the impression these rules all went into effect when they were released.

Including the 7 second delay that I created this thread to ask if it only applied to F class rifles ONLY or BOTH F Class and FTR rifles. ( Not Sling Shooters )
( only exception is as stated under #11 where Licensed and Certified E targets will not be until Jan 2020 )

https://competitions.nra.org/competition-resources/rule-books/

https://competitions.nra.org/media/7934/2019-high-power-update.pdf

I was wondering how others here and at your local clubs have interpreted and applied the new 7 second rule?

F Class Only?
F Class and FTR Only?
All shooters (including sling) in Prone matches?

I will post here what I get for a response from Aaron Farmer regarding if
the 7 second delay only applies to F class rifles ONLY or BOTH F Class and FTR rifles. ( Not Sling Shooters )

The updated (but not yet finalized) rules to which you provided a link above are High Power Rules. F-Class is a subdivision of High Power. If the new e-target rules were specific to F-Class, they would have been in the F-Class section. However, they're not - they're in the general High Power rules (i.e. 4.1, 9.25, etc.). I think you can be pretty certain the rules apply to everything under the High Power umbrella, including F-Class.

FWIW: F-TR and F-Open are the two distinct classes within F-Class as a whole.

 

[r bose]

Yes that is a problem that can occur. As and aside, for the open face etargets, Palma or FTR competitors using the 155gr class bullet need to avoid the old Sierra 155 and Nosler 155 at 1000yds.

This is the type of information shooters need to have, both service rifle and palma shooters, shooting 1000 yards. If we had known this we probably would have been better prepared using different projectiles.