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Nitride barrels

Buckeye_68

What’s your thoughts on Nitride coating on a stainless pacnor barrel for a 20 Vartarg ? I was originally going to bead blast but now I’m thinking of doing Nitride instead .
 
Nitride is not a coating it is a surface hardening process that happens to turn the metal black. There are also different types of nitride process.

Just have cerakote applied if you want a black barrel.
 
whatsupdoc said:
Nitride is not a coating it is a surface hardening process that happens to turn the metal black. There are also different types of nitride process.

Just have cerakote applied if you want a black barrel.
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I understand it’s not a coating , my bad …. But doesn’t it offer better protection ? As it would include the bore as well ?
 
Buckeye_68 said:
I understand it’s not a coating , my bad …. But doesn’t it offer better protection ? As it would include the bore as well ?
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It's been discussed a lot in the past. Hardly anyone does it anymore or at least you don't hear or see it much. IMO the purported benefits never panned out. Look to see if you can find a competitor doing it. A search might help you find more info.

 
While the nitride hardening process may not have gained any popularity with the short range benchrest crowd, there are those of us in XC and LR Prone who believe in its benefits.
Our shooting competition group have salt bath nitrided barrels for quite a few years now. Calibers include 308, 6.5x284, 243 SLR, 6MM Xc, and 6mm BRX. We have seen accurate bbl life extended and no detrimental affects on accuracy.
The hotter cartridges (6.5x284 and 243 SRL) seem to benefit the most from the hardening. Normal bbl life on a 6.5x284 is typically 1000-12000 rds. (RMMV). Borescoping both of the above at 800 rds shows very little fire cracking (both 6.5 and 6mm SLR currently have 1200 rds down the tube). Last groups with either rifle, prone with sling, were high X count cleans. The bbls also seem to clean up easier. The interior finish (these are all Bartline 5R bbls) are extremely smooth and both carbon and copper are removed quickly.
Two rifles are still shooting accurately well beyone normal bbl life, two 308s (5500 rds) and 6mmBR (3500rds).
To make the hardening process affordable on a per bbl basis, we typically send ten to a dozen new/chambered bbls at a time. Bbls need to be broken in before treatment as the hardening makes break-in after impossible.
The process does turn SS bbls black. It is not a coating but a hardening that extends down into the surface of the bbl.
That is basically the experience from four LR prone shooters.
 
I don't know for a fact, but if the bore and chamber could be plugged. The process still involves high temps to have the nitride done. I do know that on AR barrels, they do last longer, but they are not the same barrels as a precision barrel. Like Dave says, precision and nitride don't go together. Dave knows better than most.
 
True, I would do it for darkening the stainless. There may be better ways to make a stainless barrel black, other than the shake and bake finishes that wear off. Don't know what the process that Remington used to use on their higher end blackened stainless.
 
troupe said:
I don't know for a fact, but if the bore and chamber could be plugged. The process still involves high temps to have the nitride done. I do know that on AR barrels, they do last longer, but they are not the same barrels as a precision barrel. Like Dave says, precision and nitride don't go together. Dave knows better than most.
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The black surface finish is only a bi-product of the nitriding process. It is primarily a hardening treatment to extend/ reduce throat erosion.
 
If you just want it black, there are much cheaper methods that will give an excellent finish. Cerakote, or depending on the alloy of stainless, hot caustic blue.
 
troupe said:
True, I would do it for darkening the stainless. There may be better ways to make a stainless barrel black, other than the shake and bake finishes that wear off. Don't know what the process that Remington used to use on their higher end blackened stainless.
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Stainless can be 'blued', but the same solution used to blue carbon steels is not used. I seem to remember that Glenrock Blue can do this, as they have tank/chemical. If you plug the bore when submerging the barrel in any high heated solution (regular bluing tanks operate at 280-290F) the plugs would be blown out due to expansion of the atmosphere trapped between those plugs. Nitride process operates at an even higher temp. Black nitride has its place, but it's not for everything. Having 1 barrel nitrided is not cost effective.
 
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Cerakote falls into the shake and bake finish in my opinion. I will last for a while, but is susceptible to damage like most spray finishes. I have seen some very good looking Cerakote, just not for me. I do like the idea of blackening stainless by other means than Nitride for precision. I would stay with the natural stainless in precision.
 
Here's my experience with nitride, I sent a batch ( about 60)of SS and CM barrels of to Nitride. I believe from memory there were about 40 SS and 20 CM. About 30% of the SS it changed the bore dia but not one CM barrel changed.
About 1.5 years ago I bought 2- 20 cal barrels from Pac-Nor one SS and one CM, I had them both chambered wit a JGS 20VT reamer shot the CM 20VT 15 times cleaned it back to bare metal and sent it off to H@M when it got back cleaned the crap out of it and started doing load development. Both the SS and nitride CM shoot extremely well. From what I've seen and with my test a SS barrel is a crap shoot but I wouldnt hesitate to do a CM one.
Matter of fact I ever rebarrel my 20BRA after its shot out probably would be with a Nitride CM one.
 
shortgrass said:
Stainless can be 'blued', but the same solution used to blue carbon steels is not used. I seem to remember that Glenrock Blue can do this, as they have tank/chemical. If you plug the bore when submerging the barrel in any high heated solution (regular bluing tanks operate at 280-290F) the plugs would be blown out due to expansion of the atmosphere trapped between those plugs. Nitride process operates at an even higher temp. Black nitride has its place, but it's not for everything. Having 1 barrel nitrided is not cost effective.
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A 'smith I know drilled holes in the plugs, the took some old AR gas tubes cut about 8 or so inches and bent to 90 degrees, pushed the through the plugs, with the holding wire through the barrel and tubes, and the put the barrel in the bluing tank.

Never popped a plug after that.
 
I will disagree with a couple friends here that I have the utmost respect. I'll leave it with this. I've had several comp barrels treated. They shot well and lasted much longer. Mine initially were at a very very reasonable price. After my buddy deal, I added mine to another person's bulk order for a reasonable price.
If you search this forum there is a long email to me from a military armorer that did their comp uppers. He did extensive testing and the results are in his email. The only problems that I personally saw was the ones returned that were not scrubbed and cleaned before installation and then shot.
 
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