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Newbies out of control!

joshb

Gold $$ Contributor
Last fall, I set a friend up to reload pistol. All he shoots is 9mm. I gave him a press, powder thrower, scale, dies and some other stuff, including 1k empty tumbled cases and a brick of primers. He bought bullets and a good micrometer. I sat him down for a day of tutoring on loading for pistol. He got it and calls me if he has any questions. Let’s call him Dave. So far, so good......until today!
Dave calls me and starts asking me how to load 308. He has a friend that wanted to start reloading and Dave offered to help. The two of them are sitting in Daves basement trying to figure out how to set up the sizing die in the Rock Chucker I gave him. Dave says” Hank brought everything! Powder, primers, empty cases and bullets! We just need a little help.” Trying to be cordial, I try to help but the hairs on the back of my neck start to tickle. I give a ten minute explanation about how to set up a die, pushing the shoulder back 2 thou, blah blah. I’m on speaker so they both can hear. Hank says “That’s not what the booklet says.”
I ask “Who made the die?”
Hank: “Lee. It says in the book that it should be screwed in more than you said so you can feel the collet click.”
I ask “Is it a Lee neck sizing die?”
Hank”Yes”
Oh Lord, I think. I ask “ What are you loading for?”
Hank “I have four semi autos in 308.”
I say “You can’t use that die for semi autos. Do you have a full length sizing die?”
Hank “Yes”
I say “ Use that. Do you have any guages that measure the shoulder?”
Hank “What’s that?”
I say “ Read thru the beginning of your reloading manual. It should explain a lot.”
Hank “I don’t have a manual.”
I ask “Where did you get your load data?”
Hank “Off the internet.”
Dave chimes in “ Will this die work on steel cases?”
I sit down, calm myself for a moment and then give them both barrels in a five minute lecture about the dangers involved in what they’re doing, buying the stuff they need, reading as much as they can and don’t try to reload a fu$$ing thing until I get back to Delaware! I think I got thru to them?!!? They said “OK, well ...thanks.”
Scared the crap out of me.
 
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Last fall, I set a friend up to reload pistol. All he shoots is 9mm. I gave him a press, powder thrower, scale, dies and some other stuff, including 1k empty tumbled cases and a brick of primers. He bought bullets and a good micrometer. I sat him down for a day of tutoring on loading for pistol. He got it and calls me if he has any questions. Let’s call him Dave. So far, so good......until today!
Dave calls me and starts asking me how to load 308. He has a friend that wanted to start reloading and Dave offered to help. The two of them are sitting in Daves basement trying to figure out how to set up the sizing die in the Rock Chucker I gave him. Dave says” Hank brought everything! Powder, primers, empty cases and bullets! We just need a little help.” Trying to be cordial, I try to help but the hairs on the back of my neck start to tickle. I give a ten minute explanation about how to set up a die, pushing the shoulder back 2 thou, blah blah. I’m on speaker so they both can hear. Hank says “That’s not what the booklet says.”
I ask “Who made the die?”
Hank: “Lee. It says in the book that it should be screwed in more than you said so you can feel the collet click.”
I ask “Is it a Lee neck sizing die?”
Hank”Yes”
Oh Lord, I think. I ask “ What are you loading for?”
Hank “I have four semi autos in 308.”
I say “You can’t use that die for semi autos. Do you have a full length sizing die?”
Hank “Yes”
I say “ Use that. Do you have any guages that measure the shoulder?”
Hank “What’s that?”
I say “ Read thru the beginning of your reloading manual. It should explain a lot.”
Hank “I don’t have a manual.”
I ask “Where did you get your load data?”
Hank “Off the internet.”
Dave chimes in “ Will this die work on steel cases?”
I sit down, calm myself for a moment and then give them both barrels in a five minute lecture about the dangers involved in what they’re doing, buying the stuff they need, reading as much as they can and don’t try to reload a fu$$ing thing until I get back to Delaware! I think I got thru to them?!!? They said “OK, well ...thanks.”
Scared the crap out of me.
Only a select few get advice from me, and I used to make money telling them..
 
that was 40 years ago when I wore blue tights with a big red S on the chest. Lee hammer loader and a .357 on my back porch shooting at cans. Still have no idea how or why I survived my 20's
I had that same Lee Hand Re-loader for my 38 Special. S&W Model 10. I survived my 20s too. I think I used Hercules Unique. 158 gn LR noses. Was priming a case and the primer detonated. That was the last of that. Never touched the thing after. Took up reloading about 4 years ago for my rifles.
 
I shoot,jacked the freak up cast,in varmint rigs. Took almost 50 years of handloading to get to this level of precision. Along with having pert near unlimited resources in/the/shop(tooling $ equipment). It's been quite a ride over the last few years with the newbs getting into the craft. Have learned to keep quiet though?

Tough row to hoe. On one hand it's great to see new shooters,fantastic actually. But is one more chink in the technology armor... "more technology must be better"(online vs library/mentor). The wave of,otherwise passionate folks,that aren't paying dues WRT,crawl.... walk....run. Who,get on the interweeb and automatically go straight to the "last page", ain't exactly the best thing for the industry overall. Whataya gonna do?
 
I had a guy show up on the range while I was manager. Was a student at local automotive school. Had a tanker M1 that he loved to shoot. Always acted "funny". In the course of shooting there, he ran across a gun shop who's proprietor spoke to him about reloading. He of course would show up to the range with lots of questions. One of the answers I told him about was that he could not reload certain brass that he was using because it had berdan primers with the dual flashing holes. He was off to return another day.
Later on another day when he returned, he got all set up with his M-1 shooting out on the firing line. He then came in asking for a large screwdriver and ran back out to the firing line. He returned the screwdriver but returned asking for it. I asked him what he needed it for. He brought his M-1 in and showed me the remains of the case in the chamber and the head of the case that had blown off. The case separation was actually melted. When I looked at the head of the case with the primer blown out, it was the same headstamp of the berdan primed brass he was using previously. He had drilled out the center of the primer cup and then reprimed. I informed him that he was going to do serious damage to the gun, himself and others and to stick with manufactured ammo from that point on.

I ended up kicking him off the range a couple months later because he watched someone checkout the smallbore silhouette animal set to shoot at with their 22 rimfire. When he asked about checking them out, I told him he could only shoot at them with a 22 rimfire and nothing else. The next trip he checked out the animal set and when out to the covered range. Soon thereafter, I could here the M1 blazing away so I walked out to the line and stood right behind him as he was blasting animal after animal with the M1. There were others on the line so I went back into the office as he never did see me. When he returned the animal set, he told me that the other guy on the line wanted to try shooting at them and that the other guy used his 30-06 hunting rifle to shoot the targets and he didn't realize the damage done until he picked up the targets. He offered to replace them and I told him not to worry about it and I would replace then and he was no longer able to use the range and to leave immediately. He grumbled about me not believing him and left.

He did show up at the range about 6-8 months later and kinda caught me by surprise in that I did not have any firearm with me. But a good friend was in the office and had a pistol in his holster. Before the guy walked in from his car, I asked my friend if the holstered gun was loaded and it was. I then told him that if he felt a need to use it, to not hestitate, as the guy walked in the door. He gave me a song and dance and again repeated his story about the other guy shooting the targets, but he understood my position and wanted forgiveness, since he could not find any other place to shoot that didn't require him to drive off the road in his vintage luxery car. I again informed him that my mind had not changed and that he would be charged with trespassing if he didn't leave then or came back. Fortunately, he left with no problems. I informed other range officers of his name and vehicle so they would not allow him onto the facility.
 
A guy I know went crazy after the election and bought a 338 Lapua because it was the only gun behind the counter. He couldn't find ammo so he decided to start reloading.
He panic bought 80lb of Imr4350 and 5000 210 standard primers for it!!! From gun broker!
 
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Ive been waiting to start hearing reports of new reloader‘s injured from guns blowing up, it’s just a matter of time IMO. I have a neighbor that loaded up on Gunbroker components and was simply using information he read off the internet and never read nor purchased a manual,, most guys I think approach it in the correct way but some are just winging it and are going to pay the price for it.
 
Some people have no fear and have the "can do" attitude on everything, even when they are sadly ill prepared, ill informed and under tooled. This is a bad thing when it comes to reloading.

Danny
This is the ‘bad thing’ backside of the 2nd Amendment too, why we’re so deeply threatened these days. Some folks can’t be trusted to be responsible for their own well-being, let alone that of others around them.
 
I have a friend that was invited to his FILs to deer hunt. I used to work with the FIL and knew his place in Mich. was basically a petting zoo, all the neighbors feed the deer but some were harvested during season. I find the SIL an almost new REM 870 for $180 and his wife says "no telling how many people that gun has killed, we will get a new one." So after an internet search he gets a Benelli Nova 3 1/2 inch magnum. He goes to the local SO range and can not get good groups so he decides to get his Nova scoped. Bass pro installs a mount and the scope and he tries to shoot it to sight it in. No luck. He tells my of the trouble he is having and I offer to meet him at the range. When I get there he has already started shooting and looks physically ill. He is on the 50 yd line and I look around and there are at least 2 dozen empty 3 1/2 inch hulls on the ground and all the 22 guys are shooting rapid fire and having a good old time. "How long have you been here?" "about 10 minutes." and you had no help shooting all these 3 and 1/2 magnum buckshot loads?" "No". Well I shot it 2 or 3 times and got it close to sighted in then after a trip to the vending machine and a rest for his shoulder. I told him shoot one good shot with no flinch and if it is close we are done. He did his best and it was close, I made a few clicks adjustment and he shot one more and left for Mich. the next weekend. Why did you think you could shoot 2 dozen 3 1/2 inch shells? He says all the other shooters were blasting away why not me i didn't want to look like I couldn't handle it. I got a call from the tree stand next week at 9 in the morning opening day and he had a 12 point and a doe on the ground at 9.
 
Some people that are not mechanically inclined or have sufficient attention to detail thus are not personality wise suited for reloading. This is not a slam on those individuals. They are just wired differently and probably have skills that others don't have. That's why we have people in different professions that require different sets of inherent skills. Not everyone is suited personality wise for reloading or work requiring a high mechanical aptitude. Not everyone is suited for office work requiring strong administrative and paper processing skills.

Some individuals would be better served using factory ammo if they don't have the discipline to read a manual and want to learn the basic fundamentals of reloading or if they have trouble mastering mechanical skills.

I've trained a lot of young people in shooting and reloading and quite frankly I can almost always spot the ones the should take up another hobby. They don't have the patience and are looking for a quick and easy way to short circuit the effort and time required to become proficient.

For example, I can't hit a golf ball straight where as my cousin can't hit an NRA B16 target at 25 yards nor is either us interested in learning what the other does best.
 
I figure the first time he runs an unlubed .308 steel case into his full length sizing die, it will become
a permanent assembly. That, plus the decap pin deforming against the berdan primer base, all
locking the case and shell holder into the die, should keep him out of Murphy's reach for a while.
 

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