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New (to me) 6 Dasher

michaelnel

Old and In The Way
Yesterday I received my new/used 6 Dasher rifle. I bought it from Alex (zfastmalibu) here. It's a beautiful gun, and the action works smoother than anything I could have imagined. It shot great for Alex, now I have to get it to shoot great for me.

I did an OCW test yesterday, and it seemed to point to 32.2gr of RL15 as being the center of a node. I loaded up 50 rounds this morning with that, CCI 450 primers, 105 VLDs jammed 0.015".

I shot them at 200 yards and they / I really didn't do very well. Some of it is me, but I really think some of it is that the rifle didn't much care for that load. I shot some pretty small groups (3/4" five shot groups at 200 yards, which isn't too bad), but there were also some crazy ones and the POI was kind of jumping around.

I thought I saw a second node up around 32.7gr so I might try that next.

I also kind of suspect I may be over-annealing. I anneal after each firing, using a Benchsource annealing machine and have been running them until they get a dark red glow (not orange, and you cannot see it with the lights on) on the inside of the neck with the lights off.

The reason I suspect this is too much is that this morning when I was working up the seating depth with the Wilson seater and shims, I seated one too deep and had to pull the bullet. It came out really easy with the inertial bullet puller. After pulling the bullet I found there was almost no tension, ie: I reseated the bullet and went to measure it with the comparator and the act of measuring it seated the bullet deeper! I could push it in with my fingers.

I figure if I over annealed them, then they don't have much springback, and hence not much grip on the bullet. I suspect this may have something to do with the sloppy groups this morning. I am thinking to not anneal them before the next loading and let them harden up some to get some springback to return.

What do you think?
 
This may be a silly question but >> have you spoke with Alex to see what he was shooting that was accurate for him? That would seem to be the logical place to start.
 
Yes, but he was using different powders. But I will be reloading with a new batch of RL15 and a new batch of Varget, Alex was using an old batch of Varget and 4895.

He's been super helpful, but I don't want to be constantly bombarding him with questions, I fear I will wear out my welcome.
 
michaelnel said:
Yes, but he was using different powders. But I will be reloading with a new batch of RL15 and a new batch of Varget, Alex was using an old batch of Varget and 4895.

He's been super helpful, but I don't want to be constantly bombarding him with questions, I fear I will wear out my welcome.

Well there is a wealth of information about loading the Dasher at the top of this section (I believe).. I was new to it about 1.5yrs ago and I had trouble with mine too. I just kept working at it til I got it nailed down. Now that I know somewhat of them, finding a great load won't be as troublesome in the future. There are enough Dasher shooters on this Forum that you will be overwhelmed with helpful ideas. Sort thru them, try what you believe will work and you WILL find something to work with in short order.
 
if using Varget, start at 32.0grs and go up from there, I guessing you load will be around 32.5

Mine has a very tight bore and i am at 32.3grs running 2,960 out of a 28 inch barrel.

Hope this helps

Thanks T 700
 
Neophyte advice: My gun really likes N550 & 105VLD's .01 OFF the lands. No question talk to Zfastmalibu and find a way to procure what he has used, He has done all the legwork!
 
michaelnel said:
I also kind of suspect I may be over-annealing. Yes, you are. I anneal after each firing, No need to anneal after every firing with the Dasher. I get 4 to 5 firings from mine before feeling the need to anneal again. using a Benchsource annealing machine Benchsource is awesome! and have been running them until they get a dark red glow (not orange, and you cannot see it with the lights on) on the inside of the neck with the lights off. Too much heat. Paint a stripe of 650 deg. Tempilaq inside of the neck. Increase the dwell time in the flame until it melts/changes color.

The reason I suspect this is too much is that this morning when I was working up the seating depth with the Wilson seater and shims, I seated one too deep and had to pull the bullet. It came out really easy with the inertial bullet puller. After pulling the bullet I found there was almost no tension, ie: I reseated the bullet and went to measure it with the comparator and the act of measuring it seated the bullet deeper! I could push it in with my fingers.

I figure if I over annealed them, then they don't have much springback, and hence not much grip on the bullet. I suspect this may have something to do with the sloppy groups this morning. I am thinking to not anneal them before the next loading and let them harden up some to get some springback to return. I think that they'll start to come back after a few firings, but have no personal experience to back this up.

What do you think?
[
My opinions in bold. Good luck. Be patient.
Jerry
 
The load I was using is 105 Hybrid .020 off the lands, 31.9 of H4895 (very fast lot) 450 primer, annealed cases with close to .004" nt. The barrel on that rifle is tight. It did not like to run over 33 without clickers. That 32.7 node sounds very common. It will be on the warm side, if it runs smooth then you ok. When I tested the vld in that gun its window was .015-.017 in the lands (you should have that paper, it has the lengths and vertical measurements at 1k, you should see the sweet spot whent he vertical drops to 1-2"). That was tested at 1K. It will not show you that at closer ranges. I have have used the OCW method, so I cant help you there. That barrel has probably only ever been shot at 100 and 300 yards once or twice. 99.9% of the rounds fired have been at 1k. I quit tuning at any other yardage. That 3/4" 200 yard load may be great at 1k, or may be not.

I recommend you put that vld .010 in ( my starting spot for vlds) load 3 each of 32-33 in .2 grain increments. Shoot so groups at 600 or 1k in good conditions. Then load that powder charge and go back out with your arbor press and work seating depth. That should give you a good taste of tuning that rifle. Its strange how some of this works. A good friend flew out to shoot our Championship match. He brought some ammo seated long. Same powder charge that always worked for him and out temps were similar. Well his normal seating depth was all over the place. We ended up in a totally new spot. When he got home his usual seating depth was good again. What I am saying is it may be best for you to start fresh and work up a load for your location.

Dont worry about wearing out your welcome, if Tom has no wore out his welcome yet you never will ;D
 
Thanks everyone for the help, especially Joe Dirt!

I've loaded up 50 following Alex's recommendations and will shoot them at 600 on Monday.

I changed so much stuff that if they shoot great I won't know why!

1) I used to Thumler's Tumble, per Alex's advice I just wiped off the necks with steel wool, used a 21st Century primer pocket uniformer to clean up the pockets, and ran a nylon brush in the necks. Because I figured I had over annealed them last time, I did not anneal them this time, hoping to bring back the spring back.

2) sized them with the Harrell's D25 FL die I had ordered based on 3 fired cases. The first batch was sized with a Whidden FL die I bought while waiting for the Harrell's. Used the 263 bushing in both cases, again on Alex's recommendation.

3) changed the powder charge to 32.7gr of Reloder 15 from 32.2 gr

4) seated the bullets jammed 10 thou instead of 16 thou

I bet they are gonna shoot different. I hope different is better. ;-)

Here is the rifle at the 200 yard range yesterday:

IMG_20150109_093534-X2.jpg


Here is the target I shot at 200 yards. Groups ranged from .3 to .7 MOA, not as bad as I thought.

IMG_20150110_042953-X3.jpg
 
zfastmalibu said:
Bring your arbor press and die so you can try different seating depths. Move .003" at a time.

Won't have time to do that tomorrow, but will do it on the next session.
 
i had the pleasure of shooting just 4 lanes down from Michael at Kenmore Match last week at the 200 and 300 yard match.
boy does that rifle shoot well.
that is one amazing rifle.
great job shooting Michael. you will have alot of folks chasing you for second place when you shoot that rifle.
great shooting
Khanh
 
Thanks, but I was not at Kenmore Match. I don't even know where it is. I live in California and generally shoot at the Sacramento Valley Shooting Center.
 

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