New Shooter Handloader Question on Sizing and Trimming

[AuthenticShooter]

First a big shout out to member Oso who has taken the time to reach out by PM and email and has been providing lots of support as I move SLOWLY through this process. I wanted to post here though, as he may be out of pocket and wanted to try and get feedback as quick as possible as we have a rainy day here.

I am ready move to the next stage of my handloading process, having solved my headspace /shoulder bump puzzle. So I sized 10 cases and was ready to trim and build some dummy loads to make sure they work in my AR-15. I set my trimmer up - the RCBS Trim Pro 2 (manual), I inserted the .22 caliber pilot /guide and it wouldn't fit into the neck of the cases. Of course the fired unsized cases no problem ....but not the ones run through the sizing die. I have two of the pilot guides, one that came with the trimmer kit, and one I purchased. The stamp on both of them says "22" and I measured them with my digital caliper and they are dead on. (The stamp on the sizing die says .223 REM) So what gives? Am I missing something? Is my die out of spec? Am I doing something wrong?

 

[PopCharlie]

After sizing, the inside diameter of the case neck is smaller than the pilot. You need to open up the necks a little. There are several ways to do this. I like using a Porter pin die with an appropriate pin gauge installed. This operation sets the inside diameter of the case neck. Therefore, neck tension is set in a uniform manner. A body die and mandrels does the same thing.
PopCharlie

 

[358WCF]

Are you using a bushing die w/o expander or a standard FL die w/ expander? If the latter, what does the expander ball measure? If the former you will likely have to expand the necks to fit the 22 pilot then resize to your chosen neck tension... or adjust the pilot's diameter to fit your sizing method.

 

[AuthenticShooter]

So newbie question solved. I had deprimed all my cases with a Harvey deprimer tool. The decapping pin screw on top of the die kept gouging me as I was working on other stuff on my bench, and since "I didn't need it" to size, I took it off....didn't realize there was an expander ball and after reading 358's reply and another very detailed email from Oso, re-installed it and ran a few cases up and bingo, neck expands perfectly to accept the trimmer mandrel and bullet sits nice and snug ready to seat. Thanks guys.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Was your brass long? I don't remember having to trim AR brass after one firing/sizing, reason would be for bullet crimping. I don't crimp any of my AR loads.

 

[AuthenticShooter]

Was your brass long? I don't remember having to trim AR brass after one firing/sizing, reason would be for bullet crimping. I don't crimp any of my AR loads.

Yes, most were, longer that 1.750 which is what most data and people say you should trim to...some were shorter though.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I don't trim my 223 AR brass until they are over 1.760, and don't trim to minimum. Shorter brass runs dirtiest, especially suppressed.

 

[flintcreek6412]

I tried a pilot based trimmer "once". It now sits in the attic. It was slow and very inconsistent. I now use the Wilson and Giraud. The Wilson is 100% dead nuts accurate every time. Sounds like you have 2 options if you stick with the RCBS. Either trim before sizing or stick the pilot in a drill and spin it in some 800grit or finer wet/dry sand paper until it fits. Worst case scenario you screw up the pilot and buy another for $6.

 

[Matt in Virginia]

I now use the Wilson and Giraud.

^^^This^^^ Have and use both...

 

[MGYSGT]

Get the WBT (worlds best trimmer). Fast and pretty accurate. Trims off of the shoulder angle so resize first to make sure all shoulders are the same.

 

[AuthenticShooter]

I tried a pilot based trimmer "once". It now sits in the attic. It was slow and very inconsistent. I now use the Wilson and Giraud. The Wilson is 100% dead nuts accurate every time. Sounds like you have 2 options if you stick with the RCBS. Either trim before sizing or stick the pilot in a drill and spin it in some 800grit or finer wet/dry sand paper until it fits. Worst case scenario you screw up the pilot and buy another for $6.

As a new handloader and shooter, my primary objective was to get in (relatively cheap) and see where I can go with it. So I opted for the kit from RCBS which HAS about 90% of what you need to get started. I just want to build some consistent loads that work for me as a new shooter, and save me some money over buying ammo off the shelf. Not looking to get sub MOA or anything. Just wanna get better at shooting for hunting and self defense scenarios. (I got my first deer this year with my 6.5 Creedmoor - it was a 150 yd shot so not too bad.)

If I develop to the point where I need / want more accuracy then I will look at ways to improve my loads...but right now my shooting skills are such that I could develop a really accurate load and it wouldn't make any difference because lack of skill will have my groups all over the place. Sorta like buying a $2,000 set of golf clubs and you can't break 120.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

As a side note, bolt guns and AR platforms require different shooting techniques/skills. I use ammo check blocks for my AR loads, without proper headspace the firearm will not go into battery. This issue becomes more critical in cold weather hunting, when gloves/mittens are needed. Read up on how to use a spent primer in your sized brass to determine headspace/setting sizing die correctly.

 

[Field_2_Fork]

As a new handloader and shooter, my primary objective was to get in (relatively cheap) and see where I can go with it. So I opted for the kit from RCBS which HAS about 90% of what you need to get started. I just want to build some consistent loads that work for me as a new shooter, and save me some money over buying ammo off the shelf. Not looking to get sub MOA or anything. Just wanna get better at shooting for hunting and self defense scenarios. (I got my first deer this year with my 6.5 Creedmoor - it was a 150 yd shot so not too bad.)

If I develop to the point where I need / want more accuracy then I will look at ways to improve my loads...but right now my shooting skills are such that I could develop a really accurate load and it wouldn't make any difference because lack of skill will have my groups all over the place. Sorta like buying a $2,000 set of golf clubs and you can't break 120.

You'll be just fine with the trimmer you have. Keep at it and enjoy the ride. I've been reloading for about 5 years, lots of great info on this site.

 

[D-4297]

^^^^^ ! I've been using the R.C.B.S. Trim-Pro II for about five years now , and I added the 3 - way head to speed up the process on neck de-burring at the same time . Once set , it holds a +/- of .001 , and if you need it tighter than that , I don't have a answer for anyone . And I'm shooting TR at the rate of around 6 - 8,000 rounds a year . Since you're not trying to create mega-super accurate ammo , and learning the process as you go along , keep doin what you're doin , and when a new issue pops up , this is definitely the place to come for answers . I had the same issue with the pilot , and I polished it down to .306 for my .308 cases , and it works just fine . I load .223 / 5.56 for friends who just want simple , inexpensive range practice ammo , and I've taught several how to do it to get good reliable rounds in a variety of AR's . If you have any further questions I may help you with , feel free to PM me , and I'll try to help you out .

 

[PigButtons]

For those that use the RCBS trimmers, I found that if you barely open the jaws to remove the trimmed case it will set the next case at a more repeatable depth. Opening the jaws even half a turn will allow the next piece of brass to set sometimes deeper, sometimes shallower, sometimes the same. You have to be precise to get precise results.