New Lapua .308 Palma brass

[DRNewcomb]

I broke down and spent the $$s for 100 of the Lapua .308 Palma brass. I then realized that I'm pretty quick going to need some Forster small-diameter long decapping pins. I also realized that my regular flash hole uniformer would not fit and I may (or may not) need a special, small flash hole uniformer.

So, what steps does one normally follow when dealing with new Lapua Palma brass? Is flash hole uniforming necessary? I gaged the brass and it came out close to minimum. I assume that most people fire it once in practice before loading it for a match?

 

[brantfredrickson]

1. Flash hole de-burr. Increases flash hole from .059 to .062. Not optimal, but practical since my Lee Neck sizing collet die needs an .062 flash hole.
2. Trim Length before first firing. My cases shrink in length in my chamber after firing. Again not optimal but practical.
3. Uniform primer hole. Can't show you that this helps but I do it anyway, just in case.

Again I do all the above on an unfired case. And again the first two are practical, not optimal.

I shoot 50 rounds each time I go to the range. Then go home and reload those fifty cases. As the cases wear out, I replace the worn out cases with new ones from the same box. When the box is empty, I let the number of cases dwindle to a point where I throw them all out and then start with a new box. I don't have enough experience yet to tell you if this is the way to go. The other alternative is to throw out the lot when you see the first worn out case.

 

[watercam]

I, too, uniform the flash hole so as to allow trouble free decapping. My ES and SD numbers are excellent so I see no issue with doing this. I sort 200 cases by weight into two 100 round boxes as I shoot a minimum of 150 rounds per weekend of match competition. I am getting about 20 firings with the small rifle Palma brass with at-or-near max loads.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Enlarging the flash hole from .059 to .062 is defeating one of the purposes for using Palma brass. Don't do that. You spent a lot of money on quality brass so buy the necessary tools to correctly process the Palma brass primer pockets/flash hole rather than blindly modifying them. I have found very little needs to be done to the Lapua Palma flashholes, anyhow. Uniforming the primer pockets requires a primer pocket tool for 6BR, as many common .223 Rem tools, which many already have, may not be long enough to reach the bottom of the pocket.

 

[Laurie]

Assuming 308 Palma behaves similarly to the 6BR with its identical case-head characteristics, there shouldn't be an issue over a very small flash-hole increase for uniforming. Extensive tests in the BR have shown that 0.070" is the critical size - enlarge the flash-hole to that and both group and ES sizes increase. Smaller increases produce no detectable performance deterioration.

I've always uniformed mine with the Sinclair tool that indexes off the primer pocket and is claimed to increase the flash-hole dia. to 0.061". (Not that I would know exactly what it is doing as I've no means of measuring the result, but the amount of metal removed is tiny.) The reason I do it is that over the years I've discovered that good though Lapua is in both 1.5 and 2mm flash-hole size uniformity, they do produce the occasional errant example - usually undersize; very, very occasionally over. Even with Palma brass I've had a few examples that took noticeably more effort and turns of the uniformer to complete the cut. How do I know if it's oversize? The uniformer doesn't touch anything and turns without resistance, so the flash-hole has to be at least 0.061" before attention - that one goes in the practice box.)

So far as primer pocket uniforming goes, I gave that one up a long time ago for this (and 6.5X47 and 6BR) brass as I just didn't believe I was getting a return for the time and effort spent. I noticed the last time that I went onto the Benchrest Central website and looked at .220 Russian > 6PPC brass preparation / fireforming recommendations, the author stated that most BR shooters have given this chore up as there was no evidence of any benefits given Lapua's consistency.

 

[Erud]

Just buy some of the smaller decapping pins, or chuck the ones you have in a cordless drill and turn them down with a file and sandpaper until they fit. Works great, no real reason to do more unless you just have extra time on your hands.

 

[22BRGUY]

Just buy some of the smaller decapping pins, or chuck the ones you have in a cordless drill and turn them down with a file and sandpaper until they fit. Works great, no real reason to do more unless you just have extra time on your hands.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^what he said

 

[Ned Ludd]

Depending on how much you might have to spend on something else, another option is the Harvey depriving tool. If you specify, he will send you the decapping rod that fits the .059" flash hole, which also works just fine on larger flash holes.

http://harveydeprimer.com

 

[DRNewcomb]

Depending on how much you might have to spend on something else, another option is the Harvey depriving tool. ...

Interesting, I never knew that existed. The closest I have to that is a special punch and anvil for depriming crimped military brass.

BTW, Forster was very good about it when I called. They sold me a pack of depriming pins and charged only actual postage. I don't have the invoice yet but it's less than the $4.60 minimum for shipping on their website. I thought about getting some add-ons for case trimmer (like a 3-in-1 cutter) but decided this was the better course. I also thought about adding one to my next order from Midway but they only listed the standard pins, not the "special" ones.

I'm having trouble understanding the primer pocket uniforming issue. Yes, these primer pockets are about 0.004" deeper than the pockets on a .223 but do you recess the primers 0.004 or seat them flush? If you seat them flush, what's the purpose of cutting the pockets to a uniform depth with a flat bottom?

 

[Laurie]

I'm having trouble understanding the primer pocket uniforming issue. Yes, these primer pockets are about 0.004" deeper than the pockets on a .223 but do you recess the primers 0.004 or seat them flush? If you seat them flush, what's the purpose of cutting the pockets to a uniform depth with a flat bottom?

If uniforming them, you have to buy a tool designed for the deeper 220 Russ / BR pocket. I've used the Sinclair model happily when I used to uniform their pockets. (Note, Sinclair sells two versions, standard and slightly longer BR model.)

You continue to seat primers as normal - ie 'feel' them into bottom of the pocket and ideally given a tiniest tad of 'crush' using a sufficiently sensitive hand priming tool. One problem with this whole Lapua family which uses deeper pockets is that some off the shelf priming tools don't have enough extension to the seating punch and so don't seat primers fully. I had a guy on the next bench to me on the range yesterday who was getting around a 50% misfire rate with both new and previously fired 6BR brass. Everything was fine, and firing pin indentation looked OK, so it wasn't a light strike or excessive headspace problem. The failed examples showed complete ignition failure of the CCI-450s from a lot which the guy had used previously without issues. Having worked through every possibility, it appeared to be the result of short primer seating, the primers cup faces flush with the case-head not slightly recessed.

 

[DRNewcomb]

Yeah. Thinking about it, the anvil does have to rest on the bottom of the primer pocket, doesn't it? I've been trying my current Sinclair small-primer pocket uniforming tool and while it does not quite reach bottom, I can feel it removing some little burr. There are two set-screw collars on this tool. I've never moved them but may see if they can be adjusted to do the job here.

 

[DRNewcomb]

Next question is, assuming I'll be loading Varget, which primers should I use. I normally use Fed 210Ms but the Palma brass, obviously, takes a small primer. I have only a small number of Fed 205Ms (of dubious provenance). My stock includes Rem 7 1/2, RWS , Win WSR and some rather ancient CCI 450s. The CCI and WSR are considered magnum primers.

 

[Joe R]

Next question is, assuming I'll be loading Varget, which primers should I use. I normally use Fed 210Ms but the Palma brass, obviously, takes a small primer. I have only a small number of Fed 205Ms (of dubious provenance). My stock includes Rem 7 1/2, RWS , Win WSR and some rather ancient CCI 450s. The CCI and WSR are considered magnum primers.

I use the Palma brass in both my 308 and 260AI. I've tested CCIs 400, 450 and BR2s, the BR2s gave me the best results. I have no experience any of the other primers that you mention, but I finally got a box of Federal Small Rifle Match primers to test sometime next week. Stay tuned...

By the way, if you turn down a regular decapping pin with a drill and a file be sure to harden it with a torch and a glass of water. I did it and the heat from the spinning pin softens the metal and it wont last (don't ask me how I know). The one I have heat treated I've used for thousands of cases and counting.

Kindest regards,

Joe

 

[SheepDog]

Typically as long as you use the same primer that was used to work the load up the results will remain consistent. Your problem seems to be that you don't have enough of any of them to use for long. Even changing lots can affect the load. If you are looking for absolute consistency get a couple thousand of the same lot. The bench rest primers are selected to be the most consistent within a given lot.

 

[memilanuk]

Enlarging the flash hole from .059 to .062 is defeating one of the purposes for using Palma brass.

I would disagree. Regular flash holes are 0.080"... opening them up from .059 to 0.062" isn't anywhere near 'defeating' anything. Additionally, I've had numerous times where a Redding small decapping pin (mine measure 0.057") gets stuck in a Lapua small flash hole in various cartridges (6BR, 6x47L, 6 Dasher, .308 Palma) and sucked right out of the die - and not caught until later in the process when I realized that only some of my cases were actually deprimed. 0.001" clearance around the decapping pin isn't enough in my book. You do what you want though.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Monte - you're correct, I was mistaken on the flashhole diameters. Laurie pointed out essentially the same thing earlier, but I didn't catch it. I must be getting dyslexic and/or easily confused in my old age...it's a sad state of affairs, I tell you. From reading the earlier post, I incorrectly thought the intention was to open up the flash hole to the size of standard Lapua brass (.080"). The smaller diameter pin on the Harvey decapping tool is .059" so as to fit within the smaller flash hole on the Palma brass. Unfortunately, I can no longer edit that line out of the earlier post to prevent future confusion, so anyone reading through this thread, please be aware of the error. In fact, I have actually been using a 1/16 (.0625") HSS drill bit (shank first) as a relatively easy step to check the uniformity of the flash holes in the Palma brass. It fits the flashholes in my Lot of Lapua Palma brass almost perfectly, and appears to be sufficient to push out any residual flashing, although as far as I can tell, there hasn't been any on this particular lot, which seems to have exceptionally uniform flashholes.

 

[DRNewcomb]

....By the way, if you turn down a regular decapping pin with a drill and a file be sure to harden it with a torch and a glass of water. I did it and the heat from the spinning pin softens the metal and it wont last (don't ask me how I know). The one I have heat treated I've used for thousands of cases and counting....

Thanks Joe, Forster came through with a 5 pack of their small-diameter "special" decapping pins today. They seem to fit the smaller flash holes very nicely.