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New container of RL15 + same lot # + same load = extreme overpressure?

Killshot

X's matter....but 10s win (but damn, Xs feel good)
So I'm loading for F-Class, 6 Dasher. I have used the same load in two different barrels (same reamer, same bore size and twist).

I just experienced a severe overpressure situation at last weekend's match that I'd like to understand.

A little background:

I purchased three of the five pound containers of RL15, all with the same lot identification (CE0519), manufacture date is 2/18/13.
When I used up jug 1 and went to jug 2 there was no change in either accuracy or velocity. I opened and used jug 3 to prepare for this past weekend's Long Range Regional using the same charge of 33.22gr using CCI-450s and Berger Hybrids.

Around the fourth shot the bolt-lift became stiff. Several shots later it wouldn't open without getting out of position and wrenching on it (Blueprinted Rem700 receiver, Kiff bolt). I have no ejector and the cases were stuck in the boltface. It took some rather crude banging the case to remove it from the bolthead.

I managed to finish the match without breaking the extractor but most of the cases were ruined. The odd thing is that it wasn't every case, I would get 3-4 in a row with just a little resistance at the top of the bolt-throw. Of those that stuck, the primers were blown out. (brass on fourth firing, annealed every other)Those that did not blow showed just the slightest flattening at the edges of the primers. The firing pin indentation looks normal, with no cratering or piercing.

The barrel was cleaned in the usual manner before the match and the borescope showed no carbon ring.

All cases were full length sized.

I finished the match and the thing was just as accurate as ever. I noticed the elevation needed at 1K was less than normal. Ballistics calculator indicate these were about 100fps faster (3,150) than I'd chrono'd the load before at 3,050. Barrel is 30" from the bolt-face.

Every case was weighed, every charge weighed to .02gr (scale is not in question) and all bullet bearing surfaces matched.

Powder jugs were only opened long enough to put powder in the thrower, then tightly sealed and stored in a cool, dark space.

Could it really be that this powder (one year old) generated this much overpressure despite it being made on the same lot-run?
I'd understand if I had experienced this last year when I went from jug 1 to lot 2, but that's not the case.

What do you guys think?

And would you just drop down to 32grs and work up a new load with this powder or pickup some new jugs and use this to fertilize the yard?
 
How old was the barrel from new? Charles Ballard reported (and I have found the same) that barrels will pick up speed when they have run in correctly. I have seen it in a friends 260AI as well after about 500 shots, he went from shooting bugholes at 2980fps and knew all his come ups. All of a sudden it took less elevation to get to 1000yds. The magnetospeed reported it was then doing 3070fps and is still holding magnificent waterline. Case pressure is still fine so he continued to use that load. I would suggest just dropping back in charge to your original velocity and keep using it.
 
I saw a little increase in speed at 240rds, same as past barrels. This Brux had 480rds thru it prior to Saturday.

But in loading for several different cartridges and powders, I've not had this happen.
 
Could be the powder. Years ago I got some hot R 22 and called them. They said they knew that lot was hot. They told me they make the powder in 10,000 lb batches and then break it down to smaller batches. They thought that maybe the Nitrocelluose wasn't mixed entirely through the big batch and when they broke it down to smaller batches there was hotspots. Then they told me to speed up slow batches they mix 19 with it and to slow down hot batches they mix 25 with it. This was told to me by the Quality control at Alliant. I no longer will use Reloader powders. This batch was so hot it ran 240 Sierras out at 3130 out of a 308 Baer. A good 300 feet faster then it should of. Matt
 
My vote also would be for Carbon Ring..... I was also using RL15 in my Dasher from the start at 33.1 but after only 3-4 firings the primer pockets loosened up and the brass was toast, no pressure signs at all.... I moved away from RL15 from there.
 
Well if the shooter has a borescope and said there is no carbon ring, then I say the carbon ring isnt an issue. Im still sticking with the barrel speed up. Seeing it after 500 shots in a buddys krieger, maybe its had a second jump. Another trip with a couple of loads at the same charge will tell you. Even at the expense of a couple of cases.

The other thing I have seen in a 243AI 8 twist is a berger hybrid jacket break up and pressures go through the roof. A bit of copper had lodged itself on a rough spot of barrel halfway down the tube. He attacked the area with JB frequently and it soon came good but he stayed away from bergers in that barrel from then on and used lapua scenars. That rifle is scary accurate as well.
 
Totally agree with post above. It's a powder issue. Happened to me. Same lot, same powder, needed different load from one jug to another. Called powder company and they had no real reason for this other than saying "always test and rebuild your load from one jug to another regardless of lot being the same or different".
 
How was temp compared to the other times you have shot that load? I recently found some RL15 and haven't started messing with it but someone who has a lot of experience told me I should end up somewhere between 32 & 33g just like I did with Varget. Reason I ask it is sounds like you might be on the very top edge to begin with and you add heat (temp) or even cooking a shell in the chamber and you would be in pressure.

Just another thought...not discounting any of the good info above, tough to tell without being there and seeing the gun.
 
dkhunt14 said:
Could be the powder. Years ago I got some hot R 22 and called them. They said they knew that lot was hot. They told me they make the powder in 10,000 lb batches and then break it down to smaller batches. They thought that maybe the Nitrocelluose wasn't mixed entirely through the big batch and when they broke it down to smaller batches there was hotspots. Then they told me to speed up slow batches they mix 19 with it and to slow down hot batches they mix 25 with it. This was told to me by the Quality control at Alliant. I no longer will use Reloader powders. This batch was so hot it ran 240 Sierras out at 3130 out of a 308 Baer. A good 300 feet faster then it should of. Matt

I'm not saying this didn't happen, but any powder company throwing that advice out there to customers, isn't going to be in business long ::)
 
As I mentioned, there was/is no carbon ring in the throat before or after this experience.

Temps were mid-70ºs, I've shot this load in weather ranging from 42º to 95º with no adverse affects.
I never chamber a round until I'm ready to fire. Been there did that with cooking rounds in the chamber during target-repair delays.

I do think it was the powder as there were no other factors that I can point to.

Just very odd that this would have occurred only with one jug out of three that had the same manufacturing date and lot code.
 
Killshot said:
As I mentioned, there was/is no carbon ring in the throat before or after this experience.

Temps were mid-70ºs, I've shot this load in weather ranging from 42º to 95º with no adverse affects.
I never chamber a round until I'm ready to fire. Been there did that with cooking rounds in the chamber during target-repair delays.

I do think it was the powder as there were no other factors that I can point to.

Just very odd that this would have occurred only with one jug out of three that had the same manufacturing date and lot code.

I had a similar incident happen many years ago, though not as dramatic. From that point on, when I bought multiple jugs of powder, I break them all down and mix them, and then repack them. I don't trust lot numbers.
 
Since you are using a hybrid design, did the bullet diameter change? A couple of .0001s is all it takes...

I recently found the seating stem in my seating die loose. I had been in the habit of not checking every round for CBTO prior to that. It was a wake up call. Moving the bullet back to its proper distance from full jam really increased pressures.

Either one could emulate the effects of a carbon ring.

Just some ideas for you. Still could be the powder, but the scientist in me says it is unlikely.
 
Lube left on some cases?
Improper anneal = varying neck tension / lack of spring-back ?
A few cases missed the trim operation?
Are you certain the seal was intact on jug 3? Bought "previously owned?"
 

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