New Barrel

[crockersmith]

Took my newly barreled Savage 12LR .223 out to the range yesterday to see which load it likes. Loaded Varget, H4895, 8208 and Benchmark with two different seating depths and three brands of bullets each. I was very disappointed with the first three powders - not even one MOA. My old barrel did much better and I was expecting much more because my gunsmith had also installed a Rifle Basix Target trigger, trued the action and bedded the stock. And then I tried the Benchmark. Easily 1/4 MOA at 300yds!
Can a change in powder make this much difference? I am going to keep testing but is it too soon to rule out these other powders?

 

[Preacher]

99% of the time the barrel will let you know what exactly it likes the best....

 

[jbpmidas]

I'm no expert, but it's hard to believe Varget won't shoot!

 

[dmickey]

A lot of times it will take a hundred rounds or a bit more for a barrel to start shooting well. So it mat not be the powder! It's like taking a scope that's been bore sighted and expecting to hit the target at one hundred yards. It may be on paper or it may not.

 

[RAG]

Took my newly barreled Savage 12LR .223 out to the range yesterday to see which load it likes. Loaded Varget, H4895, 8208 and Benchmark with two different seating depths and three brands of bullets each. I was very disappointed with the first three powders - not even one MOA. My old barrel did much better and I was expecting much more because my gunsmith had also installed a Rifle Basix Target trigger, trued the action and bedded the stock. And then I tried the Benchmark. Easily 1/4 MOA at 300yds!
Can a change in powder make this much difference? I am going to keep testing but is it too soon to rule out these other powders?

Benchmark is my all-around best performer for all my varmint rifles...from .223, .223AI, .17 Mach IV to 6BR...burns clean and is very consistent. I also burn a lot of N133 becuase I have extra from my Benchrest days, and it is a great powder, but I still like Benchmark. With that said, "No", I don't think powder can make that much of a difference. I personally feel that if a gun is going to shoot, it will shoot everything well...with minor differences seen with different powders and bullets. In my experience, if I were to take 3 powders with an appropriate burn rate, and work on tuning the best load for each, I'd rarely see 1/8" difference between the powders...one might shoot in the 2s and another the 3s. That 8208 should shoot, but it's dirtier than Benchmark, so I'm sure you could get the other powders to shoot if you wanted...but I guess there's little need when you ended up getting that kind of performace! Good luck!

 

[fredhorace77]

if it was me i would burn the barrel out trying to figure out why the other powders wouldnt shoot...then when that barrel is burnt out you can put another on and start all over


p.s. im being sarcastic...load a bunch of the benchmark up and go a hunting

 

[Forum Boss]

Did you shoot the Benchmark last? Did you clean between powders? If not, maybe the barrel shoots best fouled.

Second thought is that benchmark has a much faster burn range than Varget, 8208, or H4895. Could be the burn rate is the key factor.

Or, as others have said, your barrel may be breaking in -- can be something as simple as a burr smoothing out in the throat.

 

[K22]

If you found something that works then why bother with the others unless you have a large supply of the other powders. 1/4 moa at 300 yards would fit my criteria as something that work

With that said, I'm truly suprised that Varget and H4895 don't group under 1 moa out of a tuned rifle. I've used Varget extensively out of my various 223's with outstanding results using Federal 205M match primers. It's my go to powder for the 223. You may want to go back and try a five shot group from a Varget fouled barrel and allow 5 minutes between shots to allow the barrel to cool completely.

However I've very good results with Benchmark and H4895 also. Stangely, Benchmark seems to do better in my shorter barrel 223's (22" and under). I now use it my Model 7 Remingtions (18.5 and 20" barrels).

Bottom line, if Benchmark works then use it. It's a clean and temperature stable powder. Like other posters said, no sense burning out the barrel if you found a powder your rifle likes unless you enjoy testing various combinations.

 

[spclark]

Can a change in powder make this much difference?

Yes, it can! Powder manufacturers use all kinds of stuff in their blends to effect a variety of characteristics beyond just burn rate. I (and a few others) believe some of their technology is intended to coat bores with compounds that can reduce fouling - both from bullet jacket material as well as combustion byproducts - and barrel wear, perhaps reduce friction and frequency of cleaning.

It's entirely possible that switching brands of propellants, even changing products in the same manufacturer's line without at least some attempt at cleaning a bore between powders can induce anomalies that otherwise might not appear.

As for a new barrel: give it time. Some barrels don't reach their most accurate potential until 100 rounds - maybe more - have been fired.

 

[butchlambert]

Tell me why a barrel needs 100 rounds to start shooting. What is in a barrel that allows this to happen?

 

[dmickey]

Can't tell you why. I've noticed this in my Remington 40XB's. In another five months or so I'll have another one to see this phenomenon in action! As these are hand-lapped at the factory, sharp lands don't seem to be a factor.

 

[butchlambert]

Dennis,
I'm not doubting you, but I have never seen it happen after years of hunting, BR shooting, and just shooting. I believe some folks for whatever reason, take a while to find a good bullet and powder load and then it may have over a 100 rounds. I think some of it comes from gun range conversation and the internet.
I have a new Mauser 250-3000 custom. I'm taking it Axis deer hunting the 6th,7th, and 8th of Sept. I called Randy Conder and emailed John Barsness about a load for it with hunting bullets. They both recommended about the same load and bullet. I will sight it in a 200yds and if it shoots under 2" I will put it up. I don't think I will have a shot much longer than that 2" is plenty good.

I mounted a 2.5X5 Leuplod VX3 scope.

 

[dmickey]

This was noticed while shooting the same exact load. No variances in either powder, bullets, brass or primers. Sometime after the first one hundred rounds fired there was a noticeable decrease in the group size. Can't explain it but I have seen it rifle after rifle.

 

[digrazir]

Butch, that sure is a pretty rifle. Please be careful you don't bang it up too much when you take it out on your hunt. Ray

 

[butchlambert]

Ray,
Unfortunately it received a couple divots just behind the ebony tip on the LH side of the stock. Some of us are klutzs. I will get the stock repaired this coming winter. You should see my redwood BR stock. Kavanaugh stayed busy wintertimes air brushing or pinstriping on the gouges I put in the stock. He needs to hurry up and get out of the Navy so he can help me out.

 

[RDavies]

When you tried these other powders, did you try different charge weights? Maybe they were outsire the node and the Benchmark load just happened to be in the middle of the node?
As for barrels taking a while to settle in, I have defenitley seen this with a few of my barrels. Some have shot great from the start, where some were pigs for the first 100-200 shots, then started to come alive, even with the same loads.

 

[Bradley Walker]

Tell me why a barrel needs 100 rounds to start shooting. What is in a barrel that allows this to happen?

Because when the chamber is cut there will be machining remnants around where the chamber meets the barrel. It takes a few rounds to get this removed. Factory guns are often worse than professional gun builder guns.

These remnants can tear the jackets of the bullet.

Fresh barrels can shoot incredibly if the chamber is cut cleanly...

 

[markm87]

if it was me i would burn the barrel out trying to figure out why the other powders wouldnt shoot...then when that barrel is burnt out you can put another on and start all over

This I agree with.

 

[markm87]

When you tried these other powders, did you try different charge weights? Maybe they were outsire the node and the Benchmark load just happened to be in the middle of the node?

Yeah... trying to bang out 4 flavors of powder in a sitting is a tall order.

 

[butchlambert]

Tell me why a barrel needs 100 rounds to start shooting. What is in a barrel that allows this to happen?

Because when the chamber is cut there will be machining remnants around where the chamber meets the barrel. It takes a few rounds to get this removed. Factory guns are often worse than professional gun builder guns.

These remnants can tear the jackets of the bullet.

Fresh barrels can shoot incredibly if the chamber is cut cleanly...

Mr Walker, I don't know how much trigger pulling time you have, but the things you are talking about will cause it to copper foul a bit, but not effect accuracy unless you don't clean your barrel.