New Barrel Honing / Lapping?

[gmr4]

Ive run into a gunsmith, with many records on his F-Class barrels, that spend a good amount of time honing / lapping the first inch or two of the bore then the whole barrel gets strokes. He uses Remington 40x — the old 40x. I’ve searched everywhere and read that doing this lapping or honing causes more copper fouling yet he says it eliminates the fouling.
My end up being a controversial subject….. he exclusively cuts Brux. Thanks in advance for responding.

 

[Mark M.]

Ive run into a gunsmith, with many records on his F-Class barrels, that spend a good amount of time honing / lapping the first inch or two of the bore then the whole barrel gets strokes. He uses Remington 40x — the old 40x. I’ve searched everywhere and read that doing this lapping or honing causes more copper fouling yet he says it eliminates the fouling.
My end up being a controversial subject….. he exclusively cuts Brux. Thanks in advance for responding.

When done properly, I agree with the smith

 

[boltfluter]

Probably removing the burr that may be present at the front of the chamber from the reamer. Not necessarily a bad thing if done properly.
Paul

 

[BoydAllen]

Honing usually refers to something done with some sort of a solid abrasive tool. I know a couple of smiths, one famous, who do a little smoothing of the reamer marks on the leade angle of freshly cut chamber, but it is done very carefully, and not with a hard tool. The procedure reduces the amount of jacket fouling from the first few shots. IMO lots of very high quality work is done without this step.

 

[Bob3700]

There have been many who have “Broken In” their bbls using the one shot n clean method. This method was promoted by several known bbl makers as well as authors in Precision Shooting. The purpose of this “Breaking In” process was to remove the burs n circumferential marks created by the reaming process. Typically 20 shots or so were fired to have the copper fouling (blue patches) minimized.
The lapping of the leade accomplished the same task without all the time n expense of 20 shots n cleaning. When u bore scope the leade before n after the reaming n then lapping, u see how well the process works. The first shots out of the bbl are all usable.
In our shooting group, all of our newly chambered bbls have the leade lapped to complete the chambering process. No “ Break In” is required as that step has already been accomplished before a shot is ever fired.
There are several ways to “ Skin the Cat” and in the end the cat is still skinned.
It is no different than asking the best way to chamber a bbl.!

 

[L.Sherm]

If he feels the whole barrel needs lapped I would entertain using a different barrel maker.

 

[ELR LVR]

Ive run into a gunsmith, with many records on his F-Class barrels, that spend a good amount of time honing / lapping the first inch or two of the bore then the whole barrel gets strokes. He uses Remington 40x — the old 40x. I’ve searched everywhere and read that doing this lapping or honing causes more copper fouling yet he says it eliminates the fouling.
My end up being a controversial subject….. he exclusively cuts Brux. Thanks in advance for responding.

I've experimented with this and have gotten it down to a good science with the barrels I've done
Have seen improvement every time
--------------------------------------------
The main thing as far as lapping the barrel goes is
you do not want it too smooth such as a perfect polish finish with copper jacketed bullets
However with lead bullets, such as 22's yes, since lead self lubricates so to speak.
--------------------------------------------
So with a centerfire rifle, staying between 320 and 600 grit as a final lap, will keep you in the safe zone of not becoming too smooth
Even with high dollar cut rifled barrels I always seem to find what feels like one area in the barrel that does not feel the same as the rest when running a tight patch through the full length
Lapping the barrel smooths and blends these area to be normalized with the rest of the barrel
--------------------------------------------
It is a rather time consuming process where several lead laps must be poured for each progressive change in grit compound
Not to mention the time it takes to take the surface to the next grit evenly all the way down the length
it is not something I have found that can be done in just a few minutes.
-------------------------------------------
this process will also help alleviate the problems of a tight bore
which is the reason I started doing this in the first place
I had a tight bore showing pressure signs at mild loads
I decided to see if lapping would help it, and it did
-------------------------------------------
The issue with some people using polishing compound such as Flitz to say for instance,
"Remove Copper Fouling"
End up ruining their bore by yes, causing it to foul faster

 

[shortgrass]

If he feels the whole barrel needs lapped I would entertain using a different barrel maker.

Agreed! Every Brux I have used (and that is 'many') were quality made and lapped tubes. You decide to lap it yourself, and it's yours. There'll be no 'sending it back' because it doesn't shoot or fouls excessively.

 

[gmr4]

I've experimented with this and have gotten it down to a good science with the barrels I've done
Have seen improvement every time
--------------------------------------------
The main thing as far as lapping the barrel goes is
you do not want it too smooth such as a perfect polish finish with copper jacketed bullets
However with lead bullets, such as 22's yes, since lead self lubricates so to speak.
--------------------------------------------
So with a centerfire rifle, staying between 320 and 600 grit as a final lap, will keep you in the safe zone of not becoming too smooth
Even with high dollar cut rifled barrels I always seem to find what feels like one area in the barrel that does not feel the same as the rest when running a tight patch through the full length
Lapping the barrel smooths and blends these area to be normalized with the rest of the barrel
--------------------------------------------
It is a rather time consuming process where several lead laps must be poured for each progressive change in grit compound
Not to mention the time it takes to take the surface to the next grit evenly all the way down the length
it is not something I have found that can be done in just a few minutes.
-------------------------------------------
this process will also help alleviate the problems of a tight bore
which is the reason I started doing this in the first place
I had a tight bore showing pressure signs at mild loads
I decided to see if lapping would help it, and it did
-------------------------------------------
The issue with some people using polishing compound such as Flitz to say for instance,
"Remove Copper Fouling"
End up ruining their bore by yes, causing it to foul faster

Thank you for the information sir.

 

[gmr4]

Ok, the reason I am asking and inquiring is we have 4 Brux that are fouling like crazy. I called Brux and they beleived it to be the result of a bad batch of jackets found in some best quality 180gr bullets. We’ve tried other bullets as well. I happened to pick up some barrels for a friend that the gunsmith spoke of lapping….. raising my interest for sure. Not sure what we are going to do.. the leade and chaamber jobs look perfect to my eye.

 

[ELR LVR]

Ok, the reason I am asking and inquiring is we have 4 Brux that are fouling like crazy. I called Brux and they beleived it to be the result of a bad batch of jackets found in some best quality 180gr bullets. We’ve tried other bullets as well. I happened to pick up some barrels for a friend that the gunsmith spoke of lapping….. raising my interest for sure. Not sure what we are going to do.. the leade and chaamber jobs look perfect to my eye.

If Brux is willing to replace the barrels before you do anything....
......I would first opt for that route before Lapping
(Bad batch of Jackets? so what if you try some different bullets such as Sierra which have harder Better Jackets that are not prone to copper foul vs the soft J4 type normally seen on other brands?
would that satisfy Brux?)
If you Lap them they may not honor any kind of workmanship on their part
and would further likely claim you messed them up with your own lapping.
I know people like Krieger will replace the barrel if it doesnt shoot well.
Mainly because the odds of one of their barrels not shooting to expectation is so low they likely dont care given the thousands of barrels that do shoot well
------
I believe Bartlein is the same way, but don't ever hear of anybody having to troubleshoot a Bartlein neither

 

[gmr4]

If Brux is willing to replace the barrels before you do anything....
......I would first opt for that route before Lapping
(Bad batch of Jackets? so what if you try some different bullets such as Sierra which have harder Better Jackets that are not prone to copper foul vs the soft J4 type normally seen on other brands?
would that satisfy Brux?)
If you Lap them they may not honor any kind of workmanship on their part
and would further likely claim you messed them up with your own lapping.
I know people like Krieger will replace the barrel if it doesnt shoot well.
Mainly because the odds of one of their barrels not shooting to expectation is so low they likely dont care given the thousands of barrels that do shoot well
------
I believe Bartlein is the same way, but don't ever hear of anybody having to troubleshoot a Bartlein neither

The thing is the two barrels I have shoot lights out BUT foul / open up around 50 or so shots. I cant get through a day of F Class. Yes, they foul 2 brand of bullets I tried. I will call Brux next week and see whats up.. they are always really helpful.

 

[gmr4]

Agreed! Every Brux I have used (and that is 'many') were quality made and lapped tubes. You decide to lap it yourself, and it's yours. There'll be no 'sending it back' because it doesn't shoot or fouls excessively.

I have 7 Brux on various hunting rifles, they are awesome. I use Brux in F Class and each has performed really well same for my buddy. I wont be changing from Brux but need to figure this out.

 

[ELR LVR]

I have 7 Brux on various hunting rifles, they are awesome. I use Brux in F Class and each has performed really well same for my buddy. I wont be changing from Brux but need to figure this out.

you might ask what grit they take their lapping to
for instance 320 vs 600
---------
I believe I read Krieger laps theirs to 32 micron which is about 600 grit
my 4 Groove Kriegers clean up very quickly
even if you have to clean every 50 rounds which is dependent on velocity
having to take only a couple minutes to clean and get back to business is nice

 

[shortgrass]

Agreed! Every Brux I have used (and that is 'many') were quality made and lapped tubes. You decide to lap it yourself, and it's yours. There'll be no 'sending it back' because it doesn't shoot or fouls excessively.

Most quality barrel makers won't warranty if excessive use of abrasive bore cleaners are used, like JB, Flitz or Isso paste. Like I said before, you decide you know more than the barrel maker does about lapping, and "it's yours"

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I doubt you will find a BR smith with a lot of group agg records that rounds off the fresh crisp throat with abrasives. If you cut a nice throat it will not copper even on the first shot. Magnums will sometimes still copper towards the end of the barrel. But it doesnt come from the lead. Even if the barrel does want to copper and rounding off the throat fixed it I wouldnt do it. Id rather it coppered for a bit.

 

[WSnyder]

I used to hit throats with a felt pellet and compound but have quit. Part of that is transitioning over to JGS reamers. They cut a cleaner throat than one of the other guys