New action

[Merdoc]

If you had to choose between Bat, borden , and kaugher for a new 1000 yard light bench gun what would you choose ?

 

[jackieschmidt]

Bat.

One reason, well two. First, Bat is one of the only action manufacturers that uses 17-4 and I believe still do their own in house heat treating.
When you see the words…….”machined from pre hadenned 416 stainless”, that is simply commercial heat treated bars that are readily available. Sure, it is adequate for the job, but falls quite a bit short of 17-4, especially when a careful and meticulous heat treat is performed in house.
If a manufacturer does use 416 and does do their own in house heat treating, that is a huge positive. But still, in the end, it will not approach the strength levels of 17-4.

The second is Bat holds their tolerances dead on. I have three Bat Neuvo Actions, and you can take any bolt or barrel out of one and it fits as close to perfect in the others as can be expected.
Since the advent of Cad/Cam production, just about anybody can build actions. This is proven out by how many are out there at VERY reasonable costs.
So, look for something that you can point to in a individual manufacturer that makes them stand out. Bat has done that.

 

[Karlandco]

Borden or Bat, not familiar with Kaugher.

Both are made by exceptional machinists. I would encouarge you to ask your gunsmith and/or call Bat & Borden and ask them that very question. I run a Borden BRMXD for F class not because I thought it was better than Bat. I bought it because I called them and Jim Borden spoke to me, then I drove a few hours and met the guy and he took the time. As a benchrest hall of famer he pioneered the idea of making actions repeatable. He opened my eyes to many things like hardened steel, action timing, cock on close vs open, firing pin protrusion, spring weight, maintenance and the finer minutiae. Mine runs like a clock, every bolt movement is like another tick-tock like every one before, the same.

Bat has a very established and accomplished record as well. Lots of wins and plenty of happy folks that will buy again. Id wager the similarities are more common than differences. With this level of hardware its more the indian than the arrow. I bought a Borden because I like Jim and the reputation I know he worked for in the shooting community. He and his associates gave me their time and a great product. In return Im in his corner.

3 gunsmiths I would ask:
Greg Taylor/GT Accuracy
Speedy Gonzalez
Alex Wheeler

Best of Luck with a great shooter!

 

[CA_Shooter]

Bat.

One reason, well two. First, Bat is one of the only action manufacturers that uses 17-4 and I believe still do their own in hose heat treating.
When you see the words…….”machined from pre hadenned 416 stainless”, that is simply commercial heat treated bars that are readily available. Sure, it is adequate for the job, but falls quite a bit short of 17-4, especially when a careful and meticulous heat treat is performed in house.
If a manufacturer does use 416 and does do their own in house heat treating, that is a huge positive. But still, in the end, it will not approach the strength levels of 17-4.

The second is Bat holds their tolerances dead on. I have three Bat Neuvo Actions, and you can take any bolt or barrel out of one and it fits as close to perfect in the others as can be expected.
Since the advent of Cad/Cam production, just about anybody can build actions. This is proven out by how many are out there at VERY reasonable costs.
So, look for something that you can point to in a individual manufacturer that makes them stand out. Bat has done that.

How close are your actions/bolts to the others? Are you talking .0005? .0010? .0015?

 

[jackieschmidt]

.0005 if you want me to commit to a number.

 

[Merdoc]

Borden or Bat, not familiar with Kaugher.

Both are made by exceptional machinists. I would encouarge you to ask your gunsmith and/or call Bat & Borden and ask them that very question. I run a Borden BRMXD for F class not because I thought it was better than Bat. I bought it because I called them and Jim Borden spoke to me, then I drove a few hours and met the guy and he took the time. As a benchrest hall of famer he pioneered the idea of making actions repeatable. He opened my eyes to many things like hardened steel, action timing, cock on close vs open, firing pin protrusion, spring weight, maintenance and the finer minutiae. Mine runs like a clock, every bolt movement is like another tick-tock like every one before, the same.

Bat has a very established and accomplished record as well. Lots of wins and plenty of happy folks that will buy again. Id wager the similarities are more common than differences. With this level of hardware its more the indian than the arrow. I bought a Borden because I like Jim and the reputation I know he worked for in the shooting community. He and his associates gave me their time and a great product. In return Im in his corner.

3 gunsmiths I would ask:
Greg Taylor/GT Accuracy
Speedy Gonzalez
Alex Wheeler

Best of Luck with a great shooter!

I live about an hour and a half south of jim , and yes , he is one of a kind! You will never deal with anyone better.

 

[quest450]

If you had to choose between Bat, borden , and kaugher for a new 1000 yard light bench gun what would you choose ?

Not familiar with Borden, I have a LG built by @Alex Wheeler on Bat B and Kauger BRIII both shoot really good but I prefer the Kauger action it just feels smoother then my Bat and it's my go to LG action for 1K competition.
And I believe the wait time is much less with Kauger if it matters to you, can't go wrong with either one.

 

[LuvDog]

As much as I'm intrigued by Kauger, they don't make the actions I'd be interested in in LH.

I'd probably go with Bat of the ones you've listed.

 

[boltfluter]

Borden would be my first choice hands down. Jim pioneered many of the things we enjoy in the benchrest world today. BAT would be my last choice, personally. For some reason every BAT bolt I have had in the shop has had galled lugs. Don't know why, could just be owner neglect. But I suspect it has something to do with the 17-4 stainless. I say this with all due respect as BAT surely builds a fine action. Again, just my personal choice as to the action I would choose if given these options. Never seen a Kauger yet, but sounds very nice.
Paul

 

[LVLAaron]

Bat or Borden. Flip a coin.

 

[bichettereds]

.0005 if you want me to commit to a number.

I measured the distance between the bolt face to the back of the lugs (aligned to the plane of both lug faces) on a CMM and the difference between three of my Bat DS bolts was less than .0002”.

 

[AlNyhus]

Another factor to keep in mind is parts availability down the line. Regardless of mfg, it's a good idea when ordering a new action to have them ship you a couple replacement f-pin springs, extractors, ejectors, etc. etc.

Good shootin' -Al

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

My rule of thumb is that you can't go wrong with what I'll call the "big three"...Bat, Borden and Kelbly. That said, there are very small differences that mostly come down to personal preferences. Things like ejection angle, for example. Me, I'd buy a Borden but you will really have a hard time screwing up with any of the 3 I mentioned. My experience with Kauger is limited, so should not be taken as anything being wrong with them, but just the other three are known commodities. With that, comes resale value. No different than a well known car vs a great car that fewer people buy.

 

[quest450]

I'd also take look at the 2024 1000 yard Nationals IBS and Freedom Benchrest and The World Open equipment list and see what the top shooters are using, a lot of good advice in this thread but some of the replays are from short range shooters and they may not have the experience or knowledge of 1K benchrest game or equipment

 

[lawebb21]

Big Fan on Kauger BRIII especially with a drop port

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Nothing wrong with using equipment lists as a reference as long as you keep in mind, those guys at the top of most lists would probably beat a whole lot of shooters, with a broomstick, much less 3 of the best actions ever produced. Talk to people that either do or have owned different makes and get into the little things...What they like or dislike about each of the top few makes. Then decide based on a more informed set of parameters. Some things really are personal preference and there's no right or wrong until you figure out for yourself what suits you best. Talking only to owners of one make/model really offers little feedback of value without experience with others to compare them to. From a quality standpoint...well, those three all win. I've been down the road of using new or unknown actions and that's why I said what I did about the tried and true makes. The Pandas have possibly still won more br matches than the rest combined. It was that way for a long, long while...not sure about now. Using what everyone else uses has its pros and cons. But, if your budget is like most, going with a known commodity is probably the smartest approach. Ultimately, testing is how we know stuff, though. Call the makers and let them tell you why they believe you should buy their product too. I'd do that after talking with several other shooters. Some, kinda refuse to change what works while others are constantly evolving their products. Ignition systems are worth spending time on with the maker, especially for long range but really, sr vs Lr matters little. The same guys will be at the top with any top flight action, for the most part but ignition shows up more at long. Some makers have removed virtually any margin for wear, heat/cold, dirt, etc for trigger handoff/feel, too. The Pandas are pretty forgiving to those things but might not feel quite as nice as some others, for example. It's a very proven design though.

 

[JLT]

Not familiar with Borden, I have a LG built by @Alex Wheeler on Bat B and Kauger BRIII both shoot really good but I prefer the Kauger action it just feels smoother then my Bat and it's my go to LG action for 1K competition.
And I believe the wait time is much less with Kauger if it matters to you, can't go wrong with either one.

Kauger has actions ready to ship. I called and spoke to Adam on Monday of last week, ordered a BRII with an extra bolt head, the action shipped on Wednesday and was here by Friday. I'm liking what I see. Waiting for the stock and I need to get a barrel chambered. With any luck, I'll have another Dasher up and running in a month or two. The barrel is the long pole in the tent at this point.

 

[shoot4fun]

I already own 7 BAT actions/BR rifles so I have to say BAT is first choice simply for the amount of barrels I have chambered for my BATs already. Kauger is my second choice. I have a 338LM built on a Kauger and it's a very nice action.
EDIT: Make that 8. I almost forgot about the BAT HR my 300 NM 35˚ IMP is built on.

 

[Rockchuck]

Kauger give them a shout

 

[Merdoc]

Not familiar with Borden, I have a LG built by @Alex Wheeler on Bat B and Kauger BRIII both shoot really good but I prefer the Kauger action it just feels smoother then my Bat and it's my go to LG action for 1K competition.
And I believe the wait time is much less with Kauger if it matters to you, can't go wrong with either one.

I could probably get a kaugher today , and yes i have been all handsie with them and they are smooth,