New 40x in .223

[FIREMAN40X]

I've been a long time visiter of the site but this is my first post. There is a vast amount of knowledge to be had here, so I'm coming to you guys with a question.

After 200 rounds and various different load combo's. I'm unable to get my 1 in 9 Custom shop barrel to handle anything above 62gr's without keyholeing and accuracy severely falling off. I've checked and re-checked the barrel..and it's a 1 in 9. It loves 62gr Cheek BR FB's but that's it. I notice the accuracy falls off even more with BT's. It absolutely refuses to shoot 69gr Matchkings...I've never had a rifle that didn't like that bullet. Suggestions or ideas....I'm just about to send it off to be re-barreled b/c of this...I just don't want to throw a good custom shop barrel away for nothing. It shoots consistant sub .275 as long as the pill weight stays below 62 gr's. It was lapped by Remington...thoughts on that little subject



Thanks in advance...Gari

 

[Savage99]

I had a 1-9 twisted Douglas chambered for a 51 gr capacity wildcat that never did well with boat tail bullets. The idea of the project was to make it like a 243 in terms of a game bullet and yet shoot .224" varmint bullets. It shot a custom flat based partition into one MOA which is pretty good I thought and the 60 gr Sierra HP which is a flat base into good groups.

Of course that barrel didn't last long with the large powder burn. From what I know now I would have done the crown over.

I would not sweat the gun too much. At least it shoots some bullets well.

Welcome to the forum by the way.

 

[FIREMAN40X]

It's already been sent back to the Custom shop once b/c they barreled it wrong the first time. I ordered a 1 in 9 and I got a 1 in 12. I waited the better part of 6 months to get it back and it still shoots the same except now it has the correct twist. Some would say be happy b/c it shoots the light pills. That may be fine and dandy but the whole reason I ordered that twist was to shoot 69gr Matchkings. I have too many other 9 twists that will handle 69's so It's not a twist issue...but rather a barrel. The crown doesn't have a single mark on it...don't really think it's that. I'm beginning to think it's just a bad barrel. I've got a panda/shilen with a 9 twist that just loves 73gr Berger VLD's


Gari

 

[Asa_Yam]

Not all 1 in 9" twist barrels are truly 1 in 9", especially near the muzzle. This is doubly true for barrels made by button rifling - twist rate can vary down the length of the barrel. This is a function of how the barrels are made, and most barrelmakers using button rifling are unable to control it with 100% certainty during manufacturing. The result is sometimes, the twist rate is faster near the muzzle, and sometimes it is slower. Faster is good - slower is not. Twist rate control is much better in cut rifled and hammer forged barrels, though hammer forged tubes usually have a lot of internal stresses that can cause the shots to wander as the barrel heats up.

It is not the weight of the bullet that determines if it will stabilize in a barrel, but rather the length. Boattail bullets are longer than flat bases, and thus may require more twist for stability. Note that Sierra says you need a minimum twist of 1 in 10" to stabilize the 69 grainer.

My advice is for you to buy another,non-Remington) barrel, this one in 1 in 8" or 1 in 7" twist. If you want to be absolutely certain about the twist rate, get a cut rifled barrel.

 

[Forum Boss]

Could be related to internal bore diameter. I bet those Cheek 62s are pretty fat with a pressure ring to boot.

Most boat-tails don't have pressure rings.

We encountered something similar with the barrel Jackie Schmidt used for his Rail Gun test. It didn't like the Lapua 105gr Scenars which are about .0005 narrower in shank diameter than Sierra 107s or Berger 105s.

I would agree with the posters though that, if it will shoot the short custom FBs sub-.275 that's pretty rare for any factory barrel.

 

[flatlander]

It'd be pretty tough to have to remove the factory 9-twist bbl. considering the amount you've got invested in it. If it were mine, I'd probably use the dickens out of it shooting prairie dogs, then rebarrel with a Broughton, Krieger, or PacNor with a twist fast enough to handle 80s - meaning at least an 8-twist. There's not much downside to using a barrel with a faster twist rate - good ones,as any from the above makers will be) will still shoot lighter bullets just great - the only thing you'd have to watch out for would be trying to run thin jacketed light wt. bullets,Hornady SX, Sierra BlitzKing, Speer TNT, etc.) at max velocity.

 

[FIREMAN40X]

Thanks for the suggestions/thoughts

I thought about sending it back to Remington one more time....but I've had just about all I can stand from them. I wish I'd found this site and few others before I ordered it. I think I'll leave the factory barrel on it and shoot it up on colony varmints.

Gari

 

[StephenPerry]

Gari
I had a similar problem with a Remington 22-250. It would key hole with Sierra 53 grn bullets. Like all the bullets shot. I suspected the barrel twist. After a call to Sierra they suggested using their thick skin 55 grn blitz. Good results.
If you know for sure you have a 1-9 twist keep your powder loads away from max with heavy grain 22 bullets. If you are mistaken about the twist and you do have a 1-12 of which this sounds like limit yourself to 60 grn and under bullets.
Stephen Perry

 

[mikeinct]

Gari, maybe this will make you feel better...it wont help but hey...My Sako 75 SS varmint in 223 would only shoot Winchester 62 gr factory load & my own [too hot] 60 gr V-Max loading real well.it had a one in 8 twist from sako...It wanted nothing to do with any other bullets or velocities.it would shoot one hole groups but only with those two loads...I had it re-barreled..Some factory & even custom barrels can all be finicky at times...If the bugger wont shoot what you want it is a problem..either rebarrel or live with it...Life is too short to let a piece of metal aggravate you..600 bucks gets you what you ask for..forget remington custom shop...Lately I have been rebuilding from the ground up any old Savage/Stevens short actions I can find...It gets me a good reliable shooter with the barrel stock & trigger I want & ends up costing a good bit less than rebarrelling any odd remchester-uger out there...If you own a good action great ...But buying anything new these days besides a Cooper {in my humble opinion] is at best a dice shoot...In the past three years I've learned the hard way that made in USA ain't what it used to be...Hunt up any bargains & pay for a good barrel & trigger job...or go the semi-custom do it yourself savage route...good shooting...mike in ct

 

[Ogre6br]

HI
Keyholing might be a sign of not enough speed. as asa says you might have a 1:9 that starts out ok but slows down and thats how you are getting the keyholing. not enough rpms from a slow barrel.
You look to have a long barrel there........
Suggestion:.....
Before you dump the barrel try getting a Gsmith to re-chamber to 223AI.
a few more fps might be what the 69's need to stabalise in your barrel. a few more $ for a lee collet die in .223 to just neck size the cases after fireforming give then a good stiff load and see how they perform. If they are keyholing but to a lesser extent - more speed and you might get out of it.

Worth spending a few $$ on a bit of work and a Lee die to see if the barrel is savable- better than $600+ for a new tube.

Then if that doesn't work you have to go the new tube route- a little bit more expensive in the overall scheme of things but it might save you from having to get a new tube. might not
If the .223 AI does work then it's $25-30 odd for a Redding body die in .223AI and shoot away.

just a though

Later
P

 

[FIREMAN40X]

Well I was able to find a varmint hunter who was more than content shooting 60'gr pills at pd's. So I let him have it. I took my money a bought a new BAT from a friend at the range. It's at the g'smith as we speak having a Kreiger tube screwed on and chambered in 22 Dasher.



Gari