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New .25 Creedmoor build for F-Open UPDATE

As I age, recoil becomes less tolerable for me. I can handle it, however, I don't like it one bit any longer. So, I decided to build a 25 Creedmoor. I contacted Greg Young from Southern Precision Rifles, more affectionately known as "Bugholes" to me, about a build. Greg had a McMillan "Kestros" on hand, which is the only stock I use for F-Open. I ordered a Defiance "Deviant" action, and a Bartlein 4 groove "Gain Twist" barrel from 8 down to 7.5 to handle the new Berger 135gr. LR Hybrid bullet. Darin Minnear at Southern, told me about a SID HE "Br EVO" trigger. The trigger breaks VERY cleanly and "crisply" at 2 ounces. By the way, Darin did the barrel work on the rifle. He does excellent work! I picked up the rifle yesterday (6-30-26) and was really impressed at the quality of the build! Greg and Southern Precision did an excellent job. I topped it off with a March High Master 10-60 with the 3/32 dot. I understand the value of one of those crosshairs with hash marks and numbers etc.. But I like "clean" reticles that are not "busy".

I have not shot it yet, however, I have a bunch of rounds loaded with both the Sierra 131 as well as the Berger 135. What was interesting was that finding the lands with BOTH bullets proved to be exactly the same. However, getting them to their "position" off the lands was almost a 60thou difference! I am going to use BOTH H4350 and N555 to see which shoots better. Honestly, I am hoping N555 does, as it seems to burn CONSIDERABLY "cooler" than H4350. Past experience with me says that H4350 is one of the finest powders there is! However, it will eat your barrel up like candy! I bought Peterson LR brass. The main reason I did this was because Peterson makes 22 Creedmoor brass and they developed a "head" that is "harder / tougher" than their other brass. They decided to extend this technology over to include the 25 Creedmoor brass. This should account for some good longevity in the brass. I have some Alpha Munitions 6 Creedmoor brass that I made into 25 Creedmoor for comparison's sake.

Hopefully, some time this week I will get to the range and "break-in" the barrel and shoot some loads. I know, I know, "breaking in a barrel" is a thing of the past. However, this old fart don't break habits very easily. Having said that, it will be a "modified" break in. One round, clean to the bone, two rounds, clean to the bone, two more round, clean to the bone, then that will be it. However, changing from one powder to the next, I will also scrub to the bone. Not that that will make a difference, but it will give the barrel a chance to cool and not allow for too much hard carbon to build up as the barrel finishes it's breaking in. At any rate as this project progresses, I will bring updates to let y'all know how it is coming along. NOTE: on the 14th of July, I will be in surgery that will put me out of commission for about 2 months. Please pray and after I get back to the range, I will get more info on the progression of this project. Thanks Guys..
 
As I age, recoil becomes less tolerable for me. I can handle it, however, I don't like it one bit any longer. So, I decided to build a 25 Creedmoor. I contacted Greg Young from Southern Precision Rifles, more affectionately known as "Bugholes" to me, about a build. Greg had a McMillan "Kestros" on hand, which is the only stock I use for F-Open. I ordered a Defiance "Deviant" action, and a Bartlein 4 groove "Gain Twist" barrel from 8 down to 7.5 to handle the new Berger 135gr. LR Hybrid bullet. Darin Minnear at Southern, told me about a SID HE "Br EVO" trigger. The trigger breaks VERY cleanly and "crisply" at 2 ounces. By the way, Darin did the barrel work on the rifle. He does excellent work! I picked up the rifle yesterday (6-30-26) and was really impressed at the quality of the build! Greg and Southern Precision did an excellent job. I topped it off with a March High Master 10-60 with the 3/32 dot. I understand the value of one of those crosshairs with hash marks and numbers etc.. But I like "clean" reticles that are not "busy".

I have not shot it yet, however, I have a bunch of rounds loaded with both the Sierra 131 as well as the Berger 135. What was interesting was that finding the lands with BOTH bullets proved to be exactly the same. However, getting them to their "position" off the lands was almost a 60thou difference! I am going to use BOTH H4350 and N555 to see which shoots better. Honestly, I am hoping N555 does, as it seems to burn CONSIDERABLY "cooler" than H4350. Past experience with me says that H4350 is one of the finest powders there is! However, it will eat your barrel up like candy! I bought Peterson LR brass. The main reason I did this was because Peterson makes 22 Creedmoor brass and they developed a "head" that is "harder / tougher" than their other brass. They decided to extend this technology over to include the 25 Creedmoor brass. This should account for some good longevity in the brass. I have some Alpha Munitions 6 Creedmoor brass that I made into 25 Creedmoor for comparison's sake.

Hopefully, some time this week I will get to the range and "break-in" the barrel and shoot some loads. I know, I know, "breaking in a barrel" is a thing of the past. However, this old fart don't break habits very easily. Having said that, it will be a "modified" break in. One round, clean to the bone, two rounds, clean to the bone, two more round, clean to the bone, then that will be it. However, changing from one powder to the next, I will also scrub to the bone. Not that that will make a difference, but it will give the barrel a chance to cool and not allow for too much hard carbon to build up as the barrel finishes it's breaking in. At any rate as this project progresses, I will bring updates to let y'all know how it is coming along. NOTE: on the 14th of July, I will be in surgery that will put me out of commission for about 2 months. Please pray and after I get back to the range, I will get more info on the progression of this project. Thanks Guys..
Looking forward to your range report. I’m trying some AA 2700 in mine that’s supposed to be easier on barrels but I haven’t shot it much yet.
We will pray that your surgery is successful!
 
Good luck with the surgery. I’d hope the 555 shoots great because it is way more temp / humidity stable or in other words travels better than H4350. Your break in process is what I have gone to. Works for me, I guess. Many things we do are migrating to doing less lately… is it because it doesnt matter or doing less is easier to SAY it doesnt matter…
Again, good luck with the surgery B .. hope you beat Darin with the new rig!
 
Good luck with the surgery. I’d hope the 555 shoots great because it is way more temp / humidity stable or in other words travels better than H4350. Your break in process is what I have gone to. Works for me, I guess. Many things we do are migrating to doing less lately… is it because it doesnt matter or doing less is easier to SAY it doesnt matter…
Again, good luck with the surgery B .. hope you beat Darin with the new rig!
Beating Darin is a TALL order for me! He really is an excellent shot!
 
Best wishes with the surgery and recovery. I'll be watching the 25CM progress.

I'm doing the same soon with 25GT but with 5R 7.75-7.5 gain twist 30". Planning to test 131 and 135's for sure, maybe others. Try various powders.
 
Prayers outbound for you as well as your surgery team. May your surgery be successful and your recovery quick so you can get back to the things you enjoy.
Best of luck,

Lloyd
 
***25 Creedmoor UPDATE*****

Well as promised, I am giving you a range report on the "maiden voyage" of my new 25 Creed build. I bore sighted it at 200 yards, fired and voila, it landed about 3" low but the left and right were right on. So, I cleaned it, made a correction up and took another shot. The shot landed laterally about 3/8" from the first shot. I thought that was odd. So I fired again. It went a bit further to the right (with a right to left breeze) but only about 1/2" higher! I said to myself "Ahhh something is not right! So I cleaned the rifle again, shot another shot, now it went up about 1.5" and to the left about 1"... Another shot >> about 2" to the right of the last shot. Now I am getting suspicious. Cleaned the rifle and started shooting. I had a near impossible time even getting "sighted in"! I was getting groups with the Sierra MKs about 2.5-3" at 200 yards!!! So, I finished those off! Cleaned the rifle and proceeded to shoot 30 more rounds with "The Gold Standard" of the Creedmoor clan >> H4350! These were with the 135 Berger LR Hybrids. It was ALL OVER the place >>> up to 4" groups at 200 yards! I went from disgusted to PISSED OFF!

So, I started thinking, WHAT are the possibilities that could cause this? I am thinking, this is acting like a broke scope! BUT A BRAND NEW March High Master? I am thinking >> this is unlikely. OK, I know the work quality that Greg Young does at Southern Precision! I don't think it is that! Could be either the wrong twist >>> Which I ordered a "Gain Twist" from 8 down to 7.5. I doubt Bartlein made a mistake like that. I cleaned the barrel to the metal using ThoroClean. I took out my trusty rusty Teslong and inspected the bore. This is one of the finest bores I have had the pleasure of peering down. Now I am thinking >>> This is NOT a bad barrel. NONE of the screws loose, I just installed the scope so I KNOW it is right! The bedding is correct etc... So, I decided to change out the scope! I have not got back out with it >>> BUT I can think of nothing else. I spoke with Darin Minnear, who chambered the rifle. He is in agreement with me. He then said "Look at the bullet holes to see if there is any sort of VERY MINOR "keyholeing". They looked like they were made with a paper punch >>> Perfectly formed holes. It has GOT to be the scope! I can think of nothing else! Until I get out next week, we won't know if it actually was the scope or not.
 
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Certainly sounds like something is loose, maybe a bad scope. I'm a little surprised you didn't put a patch on it and count the turns (twist), just so you'd know for sure.
 
Well at the back one turn will be closer to 8 and the last 12" or so one turn should be close to 7.5. I'd just check the last 12". My point really was to get groups like that it would have to be no where near 8tw. Someone did report here recently about getting a barrel that was stamped wrong and was wildly different than what the stamp said. Apparently it happens.

Also, presume you checked it but I have received new mounts and rings where the screws get tight but they are not. In my case it was rather obvious because with them clamped down on the mount without a scope in em they would move. It was one of those WTH moments followed by a return.
 
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Well at the back one turn will be closer to 8 and the last 12" or so one turn should be close to 7.5. I'd just check the last 12". My point really was to get groups like that it would have to be no where near 8tw. Someone did report here recently about getting a barrel that was stamped wrong and was wildly different than what the stamp said. Apparently it happens.

Also, presume you checked it but I have received new mounts and rings where the screws get tight but they are not. In my case it was rather obvious because with them clamped down on the mount without a scope in em they would move. It was one of those WTH moments followed by a return.
I understand what you are saying. But Darin is right. If the twist is way off, say a 9 down to 8.5, you will see "oblong" bullet holes. But these were like you drilled them with a drill. Perfect. The "Picatinney" rail is integral with the action. I bought ZIESS rings and mounted the scope myself. Having said that, I brought tools to the range and kept an eye on things. Everything was tight.. SOMETHING is loose. My best guess is the scope. I have one of my 10-50 Khales scopes on it now! I know for a fact that is a perfect scope.
 
Yeah I figured you checked all that, mostly tossed it out for newer shooters, something to think about. Agree, switching scopes to a known good one will tell you immediately whether it's scope or something else. Can't imagine what else it would be, but...
 
I have heard that the combination of the 109 Berger pushed by RL16 is pretty solid.
Once ya get things sorted that is, and I know youl get her figured out.
 
It'll be interesting to see what the problem ends up being but based on what you described it sure points to being a scope or mounts issue.

I used an 8tw Bartlein on my 25 RSAUM. I'm shooting 134 ELD-M's and it drills perfectly round holes through paper like they were done with a 25 caliber paper punch. It is one of the easiest to shoot as well as load for rifles I have ever owned. I've yet to get a barrel from Frank w/Bartlein that was anything short of amazing!
 

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