Need some advice

[GonHuntin]

I recently sent a stainless 700 short mag action and a new Krieger barrel to a smith to have my first custom rifle built,7 SAUM). This rifle is a 25th anniversary present from my wife and I've been planning and working towards it for two years. I discussed with the smith that I wanted to be able to reach the lands with a 160 grain Accubond loaded to 2.8" OAL and sent a sample round loaded to those specs. Smith said he had a zero free bore reamer and could throat as requested with no problem.

Smith called this week and said the rifle was nearly complete.....said the barrel was straight, the chamber was perfect and that I had a 56 thousandths jump to the lands with the the supplied round......I was extremely disappointed! No way to touch the lands and function through the magazine as it is.

Smith says he can have the reamer modified, set the barrel back 56 thousandths and recut the chamber to correct the throat. At this point, I'm not happy about having a new barrel set back and rechambered....I liken that to buying a brand new vehicle with a bad crankshaft and living with a new vehicle that has been "fixed"...may work fine, but it's not what you wanted......smith says he can make the chamber perfect again.....he is probably right, but, at this point, it will always be "damaged goods" to me. I'm not a machinist or a gunsmith.....and my thinking may seem irrational to those of you in the know, but I just can't get past the idea of a new barrel being set back and rechambered.....it may shoot fine, but it will always have that stigma of damaged goods.


At this point, I don't know what to do to resolve the issue.....

Options seem to be:

1) Leave it as is and live with something I don't want.

2) Set the barrel back, rechamber with modified reamer and live with a set back, rechambered barrel I don't want.

3)Leave chamber as is, install a wyatt extended mag box and live with something I don't want.

,the reason I chose the 7 SAUM over the 7 WSM was because I didn't really want to use the extended mag box due to potential feeding issues)

4)Re-chamber to 7 WSM, install wyatt box and live with something I don't want.,again, possible feeding issues and rechambering a new barrel)

Smith says he hasn't worked with the wyatt box and doesn't know if there will be feeding issues....and we haven't really nailed down the additional cost for the mag box and installation.

I'd like to know what you would do and why.

Thanks, Mark

 

[Jacob]

I am no expert but this is my opinion.

Sounds like your smith is incompetent. Making a mistake on your chamber is one thing but I can't beleve he doesn't know anything about a Wyatt box, etc.

Your barrel is fine. What's the difference if its set back 56 thou? Absolutely nothing.

In a hunting rifle I am under the impression you don't want your bullets jammed. Can lead to stuck bullets and will impede your bolt movement.

Before you have the barrel set back, shoot it. You may be pleasantly surprised.

Lastly, I would have a qualified gunsmith do the job if you must have the bullets touching or jammed.

 

[rayjay]

You should shoot it first.

In the future always write down all the specs and give them to the smith, mechinist, fabricator or whatever sort of worker you have custom work done by. They usually have a lot going on and it is unrealistic to expect them to do it all by memory.

This is not a condemnation, just a suggestion by someone that used to do a lot of custom fabrication and engine building.

 

[billmo]

I believe I would shoot the rifle before I made up my mind. It may very well change your mind about the chamber. After all, it cannot hurt anything. Just a suggestion. Bill

 

[GonHuntin]

Smith knew and knows that the chamber was suppose to be cut as specified....that is not in question.....he had a sample round and admits he didn't do what I wanted. He said he thought the reamer was a zero free bore.....this was the first time he used it.

I was very specific about how I wanted the chamber cut.....I sent the job to him specifically because he said he could cut the chamber I wanted with the reamer he had on hand.....I WILL NOT accept the rifle as is.....why bother with the expense of a custom if I don't get what I want?? The smith is not local to me and still has the rifle, I see no reason for him to return it to me until the problem is resolved.

I don't believe the smith is incompetent, he has an extremely good reputation.....he simply made a mistake and I habor no ill will towards him......the question is how to make it right to my satisfaction.

Thanks

 

[Shelley]

By all means, have the reamer re-ground and set the chamber back .050. That's a bit thicker than a credit card thickness and should not effect the quality of the chamber or barrel in any way. But, do try to end up with what you want.

For the guy that thinks that a smith who knows nothing about a particular brand of bottom metal is incompetent..... I do gun smith work. I specialize in Benchrest and other high end, single shot, competition rifles. I have quiet a bit of work and I don't know squat about different brands and styles of cartridge boxes because the guns I deal with seldom have them. I freely admit to being ignorant about some aspects of hunting and tactical guns, which I only work on for my established customers, but I deny being incompetent.

Shelley

 

[Jacob]

Sorry. I said "sounds like" not is. And I meant in that area of expertise. Which it sounds like he may be. No slandering was intended.

 

[Scott7m]

have the barrel set back... the barrel had to be machine the first time, so whats the big deal if he sets it back .050??

i do auto repair and have a neighbor that sounds just like you lol.. he thinks that no one can do anything as good as the factory, and then when we fix something the factory couldnt' he's just baffled.. or if we show him a factory defect he's again going nuts in dis-beleif........

i think the best thing for you to do is have the barrel set back and just forget about it, if he didn't tell you that he done it, you'd never know. and the width of a credit car isn't going to amount to anything. if you have faith in his work let it be, everyone makes a mistake..

 

[GonHuntin]

I also have a history in the automotive business, dealership and private I've turned wrenches in both venues......I've seen stuff come from the factory that even you wouldn't believe! Even so, I wouldn't want to make payments on a new vehicle that was delivered with bad crankshaft....even if the best mechanic in the shop "fixed" it....if I buy a new car, I don't want something that has been patched up......in this case, I supplied a new $400 Krieger barrel and I don't want a new rifle with a barrel that has been set back and rechambered due to a mistake in cutting the first chamber.....call me crazy, but I am the customer and I should be satisfied with the outcome..........

There is a difference between cutting a chamber and rechambering.....it's not like turning the journal on a crankshaft........I know enough to know that there is a chance of an out of round chamber from recutting the existing chamber if everything isn't dialed in perfectly...

 

[Jacob]

Okay. So do you have confidence in your smith or not? From an outsider who knows only what you have posted I am very confused. One minute your up on him and the next your down. Do you trust him to dial in your barrel perfectly? If not you shouldn't have gotten him to do the work in the first place. If yes, then the set the barrel back and forget it.

 

[chino1969]

Smith knew and knows that the chamber was suppose to be cut as specified....that is not in question.....he had a sample round and admits he didn't do what I wanted. He said he thought the reamer was a zero free bore.....this was the first time he used it.

I was very specific about how I wanted the chamber cut.....I sent the job to him specifically because he said he could cut the chamber I wanted with the reamer he had on hand.....I WILL NOT accept the rifle as is.....why bother with the expense of a custom if I don't get what I want?? The smith is not local to me and still has the rifle, I see no reason for him to return it to me until the problem is resolved.

I don't believe the smith is incompetent, he has an extremely good reputation.....he simply made a mistake and I habor no ill will towards him......the question is how to make it right to my satisfaction.

Thanks

Well, you have two things in your defense: 1) the smith admitted he didn't do as you requested 2) you haven't taken receipt of the rifle yet. Once you accept receipt of the rifle and shoot it your options are limited. I would try to work something out that is acceptable to both parties.
Chino69

 

[mikecr]

Should have bought your own reamer set..
They are cheap, exactly what you want, and can be used to produce better dies.

Also gunsmiths are not rifle builders in my view.
Gunsmiths fix guns.
Rifle builders create guns.
With this, there are different standards and skills.

If you need a rusty POS straightened, you take it to a gunsmith.
They get the crappy jobs all the time.
If you want a work of art built, you take pristine barrel blanks, die blanks, and your reamer set, to a top rifle builder. But don't forget to get every detail of your expectations in B&W,never by phone), agreed to by the builder.
Otherwise you will be screwed somehow.

Take it from me, I've been screwed by the best.

 

[GonHuntin]

Jacob

I think he could probably dial the barrel back in and deepen the chamber.....but I don't want a recut chamber....if I had wanted a recut chamber, I would have purchased a take off barrel and had him set it back and rechamber......much the same as I don't want a new car with a patched up motor.....

I don't know any other way to say it.....I don't want my new barrel set back and rechambered.....

 

[GonHuntin]

Mike

I used "smith" as a generic term......this "smith" has been building rifles for quite awhile and is very well known and respected.....he simply made a mistake.....he had never used the reamer before and thought it was zero freebore. I'll say this for him......he admitted his mistake.....he didn't ship the rifle and pretend it didn't happen.....and he is trying to work with me to sort this thing out.....a lot more than I can say for some people I've done business with!!

 

[Spotcheck_Billy]

Some of the best competitors in the world have their chambers set back on their 'hummer' barrels when the throat advances too far. They normally go on to shoot just as good if not better than when new!

Rechambering a set back barrel is really no different than cutting a new chamber as long as the barrel is indicated-in concentrically when set up in the lathe. Cutting a chamber requires the reamer to be advanced into the barrel in small increments until the proper depth is reached. Facing off 50 thousandths or so from the chamber end and cutting the chamber again should result in a finished chamber that's equal in quality to the original, especially if it's done with the orginal reamer that's just had the throating area reground to change the freebore. That is, unless you don't trust your 'smith to be able to perform the operation correctly. If that's the case, it brings up the question of why did you have this 'smith build the rifle for you in the first place?

Don't be too anal about this. Let your 'smith rectify the situation and then you'll be able to take delivery of your new toy and go shoot it. If you let this minor occurance spoil your enjoyment of this new rifle I suggest that you've got some more important issues that you should look into.

Just my opinion

 

[GonHuntin]

Do I trust him......well, I trusted him to cut the chamber I specified, sent a sample round for and we agreed on....in the first place.....this isn't a matter of trust, it's a matter of what I want......what I don't want is a new barrel that has been set back and rechambered.....how hard is that to understand????

Let me ask you a question.......if you sent $400 to Krieger and waited 16 weeks for a new barrel, would you be satisfied if they sent you a barrel that had already been chambered???? If not, why not??? According to you,"rechambering a set back barrel is really no different than cutting a new chamber as long as the barrel is indicated-in concentrically when set up in the lathe".....if you really mean what you say, then you should be just as satisfied with a previously chambered barrel as you would with a new one.......if not, then "I suggest that you've got some more important issues that you should look into." Just my opinion

Does that give you a bit different perspective??

 

[Jacob]

Spotcheck Billy
How come it sounds so much better when you say it? LOL You have a way with words.

 

[GonHuntin]

We have reached a decision.....we are going with option number 3......he will install the extended mag box and perfect feeding at no charge to me......chamber stays as is and I have room in the mag box to chase the lands as the throat moves forward......also have the box in place if I decide to go with a 7 WSM next time around......not perfect, but it's the best solution under the circumstances.

Thanks for everyone's input!

 

[Spotcheck_Billy]

Do I trust him......well, I trusted him to cut the chamber I specified, sent a sample round for and we agreed on....in the first place.....this isn't a matter of trust, it's a matter of what I want......what I don't want is a new barrel that has been set back and rechambered.....how hard is that to understand????

Let me ask you a question.......if you sent $400 to Krieger and waited 16 weeks for a new barrel, would you be satisfied if they sent you a barrel that had already been chambered???? If not, why not??? According to you,"rechambering a set back barrel is really no different than cutting a new chamber as long as the barrel is indicated-in concentrically when set up in the lathe".....if you really mean what you say, then you should be just as satisfied with a previously chambered barrel as you would with a new one.......if not, then "I suggest that you've got some more important issues that you should look into." Just my opinion

Does that give you a bit different perspective??

First, let me say that I'm happy to hear that you've reached an equitable solution to your problem.

With that out of the way, I'll try to answer the questions that you posed to me in your post, then perhaps we can put this issue to bed.

In answer to your first question, "how hard is that to understand?", I suggest that you're the one who has a lack of understanding. I attempted to explain the rechambering option that your 'smith presented to you and it appears by your answer that you either didn't comprehend what I posted earlier or you refuse to accept the fact. Taking a very small amount off the back end of your barrel and advancing a reamer with the correct amount of freebore would do no harm at all, except possibly in your mind! Many 'smiths have to do exactly the same thing when chambering a new barrel if they happen to advance the reamer slightly too far during the chambering job. No big deal!

In response to your second question to me I'll answer by first saying that to the best of my knowledge Krieger does not send out chambered barrels, so what point are you trying to make? It appears to me that you ordered a barrel from Krieger, waited the normal amount of time, gave it to a 'smith of your choosing with instructions on how you wanted it chambered, and he didn't follow them. It looks like he was honest enough to tell you of his mistake instead of letting you find out on your own, which is more than I can say for the 'smith that chambered another board members 6.5x55 barrel, delivered the barreled action, and let the unhappy shooter find out for himself when he started building loads for it. In any case, my answer is no, it doesn't give me a different perspective about your dilemma. Not at all!

In closing, let me reiterate that I'm glad that you and the 'smith have resolved it, now go shoot it and have fun. It was an obviously stressful situation for you, and I sincerely wish you are over that enough to enjoy this new rifle.

 

[tightneck]

Do I trust him......well, I trusted him to cut the chamber I specified, sent a sample round for and we agreed on....in the first place.....this isn't a matter of trust, it's a matter of what I want......what I don't want is a new barrel that has been set back and rechambered.....how hard is that to understand????

Let me ask you a question.......if you sent $400 to Krieger and waited 16 weeks for a new barrel, would you be satisfied if they sent you a barrel that had already been chambered???? If not, why not??? According to you,"rechambering a set back barrel is really no different than cutting a new chamber as long as the barrel is indicated-in concentrically when set up in the lathe".....if you really mean what you say, then you should be just as satisfied with a previously chambered barrel as you would with a new one.......if not, then "I suggest that you've got some more important issues that you should look into." Just my opinion

Does that give you a bit different perspective??

First, let me say that I'm happy to hear that you've reached an equitable solution to your problem.

With that out of the way, I'll try to answer the questions that you posed to me in your post, then perhaps we can put this issue to bed.

In answer to your first question, "how hard is that to understand?", I suggest that you're the one who has a lack of understanding. I attempted to explain the rechambering option that your 'smith presented to you and it appears by your answer that you either didn't comprehend what I posted earlier or you refuse to accept the fact. Taking a very small amount off the back end of your barrel and advancing a reamer with the correct amount of freebore would do no harm at all, except possibly in your mind! Many 'smiths have to do exactly the same thing when chambering a new barrel if they happen to advance the reamer slightly too far during the chambering job. No big deal!

In response to your second question to me I'll answer by first saying that to the best of my knowledge Krieger does not send out chambered barrels, so what point are you trying to make? It appears to me that you ordered a barrel from Krieger, waited the normal amount of time, gave it to a 'smith of your choosing with instructions on how you wanted it chambered, and he didn't follow them. It looks like he was honest enough to tell you of his mistake instead of letting you find out on your own, which is more than I can say for the 'smith that chambered another board members 6.5x55 barrel, delivered the barreled action, and let the unhappy shooter find out for himself when he started building loads for it. In any case, my answer is no, it doesn't give me a different perspective about your dilemma. Not at all!

In closing, let me reiterate that I'm glad that you and the 'smith have resolved it, now go shoot it and have fun. It was an obviously stressful situation for you, and I sincerely wish you are over that enough to enjoy this new rifle.

From the tone of his postings, there's no way he'll ever get over it. It's too bad that shooters with so little knowledge about machining, get so worked up about NOTHING...Well I'm off to set a brand new Bartlien back that I cut the cone just a little too short on. Damn glue-ins.