I am trying to get a handle on my options for building a sporter weight walking varmint/deer rifle. I want to use Lapua brass,I think) and I'm considering the 6 x 47,6.5 x 47 Lapua necked down), 243, 243 A.I., 6 x.284,off the 6.5 x.284 Win. Laupa brass) and lastly the 6mm Remington regular or A.I. version with Remington brass. Will be using 85-107 grain bullets, I would expect. What can I get velocity wise from these rounds? Are some known to be easier to get accurate loads for? Will all of these fit in a Rem. 700 short action?,I'd like to use a Stiller Predator really and I guess a #4 contour)and I don't want the barrel over 24 inches and prefer 22-23 inches. I also need advice on the best twist rate. Is this a good plan or am I missing something? Game would be whitetails from zero to 300 yards and woodchucks and coyotes out as far as I can hit them. Thanks in advance.
Need input for varmint/deer rifle
- Thread starter dimecovers3
- Start date
I would go for the 6mm Remington, or the A.I. version. I would also stick with either a 95 ballistic tip or a 100 sierra sbt. I prefer the sierra by far. I have never had an A.I., but have had many 6mm rem, they have never let me down. in fact i prefer them over the 30 cals anyday on deer.
How much of a disadvantge is using the Remington brass? How would you rate its quality? What velocity are you getting with what length barrel? Any recomendations for a varmint bullet? What twist works for you?
Remington's 6mm has served me well for deer, predator and varmints for 30+ years. Fits the short action Remington just fine. Light recoil. Good accuracy. With a 95 - 105 grain bullet 3000 - 3100+ fps is easy. With Reloader 22 and a 24" barrel, 3200 fps can be reached w/deer bullets. I prefer the 95 - 105 grain bullets for deer, they also work okay for varmints & predators. I have no problem taking a 300 yard shot on mule deer with the little 6mm Remington. Venison is good.
Lighter bullets, down to 55 grains, are useful on varmints as well. The 60 and 75 grain Sierra hollowpoints are quite accurate and vaporize the target!
A standard 1:9 twist works well w/most hunting bullets. If you've got any thought of running the 107 grain match bullets, you might want to spin them a little faster.
Nothing wrong with a .243 Winchester either - virtually the same ballistics and you can get high quality Lapua brass...
Regards, Guy
Lighter bullets, down to 55 grains, are useful on varmints as well. The 60 and 75 grain Sierra hollowpoints are quite accurate and vaporize the target!
A standard 1:9 twist works well w/most hunting bullets. If you've got any thought of running the 107 grain match bullets, you might want to spin them a little faster.
Nothing wrong with a .243 Winchester either - virtually the same ballistics and you can get high quality Lapua brass...
Regards, Guy
If I skip the idea of any bullet heavier than 100 grains and stay beteen 100-95 for deer and 75-87 for varmints, what is the best compromise twist? I would assume with the compromise twist, the lighest bullets below 75 would not handle the RPM's, right?
Go with a 1-10 twist, it will handle everything from 100grns down to the 55 grn noslers. i once had a .243 with a 1/10, it shot the 55 noslers the best, but i could turn around and shoot 95 to deer hunt with. I also had a 6br just last year, that had a 1/10 twist on it, only 22" long. the guy sold it to me because he tought it wouldn't stabalize the light bullets, but he had never tried. it absolutly loved 58grn v-max's, and i was running them fast!!!!! i was shooting 75 grn v-max to deer hunt with in it, over 3500 fps but pushing very hard. the only deer i shot with it was a complete pass thru, and it was a heck of a hole. so go with a 1/10 and don't look back. just my opinion.
As such is intended as a "deer/varmint rifle", and therefore suggests the need for the occasional swift follow up shot, give serious thought to an action & cartridge combination that cycles flawlessly under all conditions. The most accurate rifle in the world is worth nothing in the field if the case and bolt are jammed solid!
Just a thought as a wounded buck, and indeed pesky varmint, demands we at least get it right with the next shot if at all possible.
Cheers
Just a thought as a wounded buck, and indeed pesky varmint, demands we at least get it right with the next shot if at all possible.
Cheers
I want a non-sensible rifle this time. Mid life crisis maybe. Of the rounds I mentioned in my first post, how do they rank in relative speed for say a 95 grain bullet in a 24 max. barrel, give or take. I crave speed for this rifle, don't know why, I guess getting a .17 Rem got me liking the laser beam trajectory. I 'll be lucky if I get to shoot it two doze times a year so I'm not worried about the barrel
Forum Boss
Administrator
How's this for inspiration. It's a 6mmAI, maple burl and walnut laminate. Personally I'd build it in 6.5x47 if deer is the primary game. If it's mostly for varmints, I'd do a 9-twist 6mm-6x47. That would let you shoot everything from the 50s to the Berger 95s.
Almost too pretty to carry afield. But would be a dream to shoot off-hand or from an improvised rest.
More: http://www.richardscustomrifles.com
Almost too pretty to carry afield. But would be a dream to shoot off-hand or from an improvised rest.
More: http://www.richardscustomrifles.com
Hi i would get an 8 twist 6mm barrel and chamber it for a 6X47 Lapya use 115gr DTAC projectiles they will work very well for deer and yes i do know that Sierra dont reccomend them but they are awsome for medium game. i would then use 105gr A Max's for varmints as they are more frangable on game and break up easier and will not ricochet.
The Rem standard length mag will feed them fine with the long VLD projectiles seated out past the doghnut. You will be using a short barrel at a max length of 24" so the larger cases will provide a lot of muzzle blast without to much performance increase. I would not use a 6mmBR as they can be fussy to feed and more importantly eject reliably.
The other option if deer will be shot regularly the 6.5X47 LApua will have a lot more energy and use an 8 twist again in 6.5 and you can use any projectile you want and 85gr projectiles for varmints. if the deer you are hunting are medium i would go with the 6.5 first and 6mm seccond but if they are small deer the 6mm is fine.
Hope this helps
Cheers Bill
Australia
The Rem standard length mag will feed them fine with the long VLD projectiles seated out past the doghnut. You will be using a short barrel at a max length of 24" so the larger cases will provide a lot of muzzle blast without to much performance increase. I would not use a 6mmBR as they can be fussy to feed and more importantly eject reliably.
The other option if deer will be shot regularly the 6.5X47 LApua will have a lot more energy and use an 8 twist again in 6.5 and you can use any projectile you want and 85gr projectiles for varmints. if the deer you are hunting are medium i would go with the 6.5 first and 6mm seccond but if they are small deer the 6mm is fine.
Hope this helps
Cheers Bill
Australia
If using as a deer rifle, and the 6.5x47 lapua is in mind, then why not? I just checked a piece of brass in the detachable magazine remington, short action, and they seem to feed fine, while the 6br will not. i didn't realize this was a problem, until after buying the gun. the 6.5 caliber is hard to beat no matter what the game. read Darrell's article on home page about it. he's running the 120's 3100 fps, so a 100hp would be running 3300fps or so hopefully, what an awesome deer and varmint bullet! the 100hp from sierra is a great deer bullet, used it for years and they never get away!
This thread is really interesting. I have never shot or owned a 6.5 mm gun but now that the 6.5X47 Lapua is available I find that this may be a possible caliber I would like to choose for a future gun project. I shoot primarily varmints and may start shooting Mule Deer and wild pig since they are so plentiful around here. Since part of the criteria for choosing a particular caliber is the choice of bullets and the intended use, I would like to ask those that have experience with 6.5 mm bullets what choices they would recommend for varmint and deer/pig.
Hornady makes a 95gr V-Max and a 140 gr A-Max while Sierra offers a variety of Varmint and game bullets. What bullets at what weight for varmints and deer/pigs would you suggest?
Hornady makes a 95gr V-Max and a 140 gr A-Max while Sierra offers a variety of Varmint and game bullets. What bullets at what weight for varmints and deer/pigs would you suggest?
O.K. schal, nice hijack, but if you guys don't mind, I'd like to stick with a 6mm bullet and not go up to 6.5,already have that covered in spades). Mod, checked out your rifle,very nice) and the link to your gunsmith. He seemed to love the 6mm Rem. A.I. as the ultimate long range groundhog gun. I liked his logic on it, but doubted he had built "hundreds" of them....could that be true or just an exageration because he loves the round? Also, am thinking he liked it prior to advent of the new Laupa round and wonder which would shoot faster if 6.5 was necked down---do you know? I think I would like to use him as he is only about three hours drive from me and I loved his lamination work. Never thought about wood for this project till seeing his site. Could not abide with the removing of the bolt everytime to extract a round, though. Need a deer repeater for my little son and a yote stomper for me. Figure 6mm has this down to a tee. Would like to keep recoil low for him, hence not wanting bullet over 100 grains. I am not sure if 1/10 or 1/9 twist is optimal after looking at Lilja site info.
Preacher
Gold $$ Contributor
My 6mm Ackley on a 700 action with a 1 in 10 twist shoots the 80 grain Fowler flat base bullets like little lasers as far away as I can shoot groundhogs and coyotes.
From what I've seen as far a penetrating bone and hide I wouldn't worry about dropping one into a deer out to 300 yards either.
From what I've seen as far a penetrating bone and hide I wouldn't worry about dropping one into a deer out to 300 yards either.
Preacher,
If you wanted the gun for shooting 75 Vmax or 87 Vmax and then up to 95 grain BalTip and Partition would you say 1/10 or 1/9 ? I think most factory guns are 1/10, but not sure. I wish somebody made a true 9.5 twist---problem solved.
Here are my parts:
Stiller Predator action
Lone Wolf sporter stock/ or Richards Laminated
#3 contour .........???? 3 grooves? 5.. twist..?
Leupy 4.5 x 14 40mm A.O.
Burris Rings with non-lapping inserts
Rifle Basics Trigger 3 lbs.
Leupy Bases,without windage screw)
What would you change about this set-up anybody?
If you wanted the gun for shooting 75 Vmax or 87 Vmax and then up to 95 grain BalTip and Partition would you say 1/10 or 1/9 ? I think most factory guns are 1/10, but not sure. I wish somebody made a true 9.5 twist---problem solved.
Here are my parts:
Stiller Predator action
Lone Wolf sporter stock/ or Richards Laminated
#3 contour .........???? 3 grooves? 5.. twist..?
Leupy 4.5 x 14 40mm A.O.
Burris Rings with non-lapping inserts
Rifle Basics Trigger 3 lbs.
Leupy Bases,without windage screw)
What would you change about this set-up anybody?
Steve - you're contemplating a far fancier rifle than mine, a mere factory built 6mm Rem 700 BDL, with an old 3-9x Leupold. That rifle of mine has quite a success trail over the years though. Back to your original statement "Game would be whitetails from zero to 300 yards and woodchucks and coyotes out as far as I can hit them." This little factory rifle hasn't had any problem in those areas, despite preying on mule deer, coyotes and rockchucks more than whitetail and woodchucks.
The little old 6mm Rem and friends...
Youngest son at 13, with his first deer, a mulie doe taken w/one shot from 275 yards. The rifle was temporarily in a synthetic Remington "youth" stock at that point. Then the boy grew...
Same lad, now 15, at a range session earlier this month, with that same hunting rifle, back in the original stock.
It's a peach to shoot, and delivers the goods. The 1:9 twist works fine. Only bullets I've had a little trouble with accuracy with were the 55 grainers. Even Sierra's good old 60 grain hollowpoints shoot rather well, and the 75's are golden. Mostly though, we just shoot 95 or 100 grain deer loads at everything from mulies, to coyotes to 'chucks and ground squirrels. It seems to work just fine!
Just loaded up a batch of deer loads this morning: R-P cases, CCI 200's, 47.5 gr of Reloader 22, and 100 grain Nosler Partitions. For more accuracy I'd substitute the 95 grain Ballistic Tip, which is likely my favorite all-around bullet for this rifle, and bump the powder charge up to a solid 48 grains. RL-22 can produce excellent accuracy and velocity from the 6mm Rem.
If I was building it from scratch for the same purpose... I'd like a better trigger, a slightly longer 24" Krieger sporter barrel, 1:9 twist, and a nicer grained stock, with the action pillar bedded. I'm okay with the Leupold STD mount, and I like your selection of the 4.5-14x Leupold scope. That's the scope I use on my .25-06 Remington... Which I bought to replace this 6mm after I gave this one to my son and missed having a nice smallish bore 'yote,'chuck and mulie zapper too much...
Regards, Guy
The little old 6mm Rem and friends...
Youngest son at 13, with his first deer, a mulie doe taken w/one shot from 275 yards. The rifle was temporarily in a synthetic Remington "youth" stock at that point. Then the boy grew...
Same lad, now 15, at a range session earlier this month, with that same hunting rifle, back in the original stock.
It's a peach to shoot, and delivers the goods. The 1:9 twist works fine. Only bullets I've had a little trouble with accuracy with were the 55 grainers. Even Sierra's good old 60 grain hollowpoints shoot rather well, and the 75's are golden. Mostly though, we just shoot 95 or 100 grain deer loads at everything from mulies, to coyotes to 'chucks and ground squirrels. It seems to work just fine!
Just loaded up a batch of deer loads this morning: R-P cases, CCI 200's, 47.5 gr of Reloader 22, and 100 grain Nosler Partitions. For more accuracy I'd substitute the 95 grain Ballistic Tip, which is likely my favorite all-around bullet for this rifle, and bump the powder charge up to a solid 48 grains. RL-22 can produce excellent accuracy and velocity from the 6mm Rem.
If I was building it from scratch for the same purpose... I'd like a better trigger, a slightly longer 24" Krieger sporter barrel, 1:9 twist, and a nicer grained stock, with the action pillar bedded. I'm okay with the Leupold STD mount, and I like your selection of the 4.5-14x Leupold scope. That's the scope I use on my .25-06 Remington... Which I bought to replace this 6mm after I gave this one to my son and missed having a nice smallish bore 'yote,'chuck and mulie zapper too much...
Regards, Guy
I'd go for the .243 or .243 AI. Even with the extended box magazine, I still can't quite get my bullets seated out ahead of the neck/shoulder junction,90gr. Swifts). It's just enough for my second choice bullet--the 85gr. Barnes TSX. If you were going to go with a 6mm or any other cartridge based on the 7x57, I'd go ahead and get a long action.
I'd also stick with a proven hunting bullet for medium-sized game. I just pulled out a Swift Scirocco that went straight into the shoulder of a caribou at 300 yards,seems that my scope didn't withstand the bone-jarring boat rides as well as I thought it would) and the bullet was still in one piece. If I could remember where I put it, I'd weigh it to see what the weight retention was.
You can take down any game with any bullet with perfect placement, however, it's better to have a bullet that will also work with less than perfect placement. I also prefer not finding bullet fragments in my meat--I get enough of that from upland game.
BTW, Krieger recommends a 9-twist barrel for the Swifts and Barnes TSX. A 10-twist might also work, but I just went with the recommendation.
robert
I'd also stick with a proven hunting bullet for medium-sized game. I just pulled out a Swift Scirocco that went straight into the shoulder of a caribou at 300 yards,seems that my scope didn't withstand the bone-jarring boat rides as well as I thought it would) and the bullet was still in one piece. If I could remember where I put it, I'd weigh it to see what the weight retention was.
You can take down any game with any bullet with perfect placement, however, it's better to have a bullet that will also work with less than perfect placement. I also prefer not finding bullet fragments in my meat--I get enough of that from upland game.
BTW, Krieger recommends a 9-twist barrel for the Swifts and Barnes TSX. A 10-twist might also work, but I just went with the recommendation.
robert
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