Need help. Loading 7mm Mag. Can't get consistent accuracy.

[Fursty]

I am having the worst time finding an accurate load for my rifle. I am shooting a Remington 783 7mm Mag. I have had it for a year and was not satisfied with the accuracy of the factory rounds so I started reloading a few months ago. I started with H4831SC and a Hornady 154 SST. I have since also tried Retumbo/154 SST as well as H4831SC/Nosler Accubond LR 168gr and RL26/Nosler Accubond LR 168gr. I have only been using Hornady cases and Winchester WLRM primers. I did try varying the seating depth a little as well. Mostly done at normal COL, but some done at 0.03 off the lands.

All of my shooting has been off of a led sled.

My goal is to get something from 2950 to 3050 fps for a hunting load that I could confidently shoot out to 600 yds. So, if I can get repeatable 1 moa at 100 yds, with those velocities, I will be happy.

I have been able to hit 1 moa or less at times, but not at the velocities I would like.

Here is all of my data in the pictures below. Most of the data is using 3 shot groups, but a few had 5 shot groups. If I can't get 1 moa or less with a three shot group, then the 5 shot group is pointless to try. Isn't it?

Please give me some guidance as to what I should try next.

Glass bed the rifle?
Pick a velocity I like and try other seating depths?
Try another primer?
Try another powder?

 

[watercam]

Don't know how many other magnum rifles of yours you have shot from the Lead Sled but I would put this rifle on bags front and rear so it can slide back with recoil a bit. The jolt of being held back by the rigid butt plate and the weight of the sled does nothing for consistency. I would expect more vertical dispersion when using it.
The 783 is a very basic factory rifle, .7-1.0 moa would be about what one might expect from a plastic stock with no bedding block. How is your trigger pull weight? 2-3 Ibs. would be nice.
However! There is a load out there that it should like. Keep your barrel cool - shoot 3-5 shot groups and then let it cool if you don't already. Many folks have had very good luck with Reloader 22. You might consider Federal and/or CCI match magnum primers. Check your brass neck concentricity. If they are .003" thicker on one side than the other your bullet is misaligned a tad. Sometimes it matters, sometimes not so much. Seating depth is more of an issue with VLD bullets but there will be a sweet spot for the others as well. Try .020" off the lands to start with conventional ogive projectiles. Find a powder charge that seems to work. Then adjust seating in .005" increments.
Spend $$ on the best bullets you can afford that will get the job done. You might consider a stiffer stock in the future and glass bed that one. Consider reading some of the Thread under Reloading titled Load Development at 100 yards started by Erik Cortina. Tons of useful info there.

 

[Master Chief]

I think I see some similarities in your groups across all the charts you put up. It appears that all the loads as you approach the higher velocity group close
to the same level of MOA. If you overlay all the charts can you chart out you averages based on velocity?

I think bedding and possibly trigger work would help tighten them a bit. Do you have someone close to you that could boriscope the barrel and see if there is anything going on inside that is not letting the bullets stabilize at the higher velocities?

I would build a load up on a 139 gr bullet and see if that tightens your groups at the velocities you are looking to shoot at, that would help indicate if your rifling is in good shape.

 

[Spin Drift]

Have you done better with other rifles?

I have made many fantastic groups with a lead sled and a lightweight 7mm Rem Mag as well as other rifles so I wouldn't rush to blame that. Experimenting with other shooting rest setups is not a bad idea though.

Please describe your bore cleaning regime to us.

I suggest you put the Retumbo behind the 168's and drive it hard. I found accuracy at 3050 and 3150 fps in my 7RM. I've only tried two primers but WLRM gave me higher speed but lower ES/SD than Fed 215M with Retumbo. This setup shoots 1 MOA on a bad day and about 1/2 MOA on a good day in my rifle. I'm running the berger 168's with a lot of jump to fit the tikka magazine. The nosler 168's should be very accurate as well.

I cannot speak for R-26 but the other two powders H-4831 and Retumbo are both fantastic powders for the 7RM so I wouldn't blame the powder selection.

For 168 bullets in 7RM I've used:

IMR-7828
IMR-4831
Retumbo
R-22
R-25

All of these were easily capable of 1 MOA and much better.


There are many areas that your problems could be in if not many areas at the same time. I have no idea what your experience level is. I have personally battled all of these 3 things at one point or another:

1. Poor Shooting techniques
2. Rifle setup and condition (includes cleaning techniques)
3. Hand loading / Ammunition quality (watch for bullet and neck run out)

 

[2506]

I suggest that you be realistic. You are not going to get the accuracy of a precision $$$ rifle out of a dollar two nighty eight bottom of the barrel rifle. You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

 

[Fursty]

Cleaning....
2-3 patches of Eliminator
Brush with nylon brush 10-15 times
2-3 patches Eliminator
Repeat until clean
Then 1-2 dry patches
1 patch with oil
1 last dry patch

 

[FeMan]

IMR 7828 has been the best for me for the 150s and H1000 for the 168s. Winchester primers also gave best results for me.

If you haven't started playing with seating depth, I would get too discouraged. Some of my factory rifles have HUGE swings in accuracy between nodes. I have a stock Rem 270 that will shoot under 1/2 MOA with what it likes and 2.5 MOA with what it doesn't. It liked only 2 powders (IMR and H 4831) and was finicky on seating depth. I think your expectations are reasonably achievable if you play with it enough.

 

[Spin Drift]

Cleaning....
2-3 patches of Eliminator
Brush with nylon brush 10-15 times
2-3 patches Eliminator
Repeat until clean
Then 1-2 dry patches
1 patch with oil
1 last dry patch

You are obviously a very detailed person who does pay close attention. You can probably test many different bullets and many different loads and may eventually come up with something that shoots 'OK' but my suggestion based on what I can tell about you so far is that you might be much happier with a higher quality rifle. It really sounds like that rifle is going to be difficult to tune.

If you want to improve that rifle and you are interested in learning how to a bedding job that could help a lot. I wouldn't pay a smith to work on that thing though as it really isn't a platform worth investing in.

What scope and rings are you using?

 

[Fursty]

I am not sure what the rings are, but the scope is a Bushnell Trophy XLT. Not expensive.

I am thinking about the bedding as one of the next steps. Where do I get the supplies/what brand is good?

 

[Fursty]

If I would look for a better rifle, where do I start? What brand/model? Where is a good place to shop for one?

 

[Spin Drift]

If I would look for a better rifle, where do I start? What brand/model? Where is a good place to shop for one?

That's easy,

For a hunting rifle that is nice and light for packing Tikka T3 Lite or Browning X-Bolt. My tikka was $850 up here in Canada. I personally chose the Tikka but the x-bolt is a fine rifle as well.

I am not sure what the rings are, but the scope is a Bushnell Trophy XLT. Not expensive.

That scope does not appear to have parallax adjustment so that can easily be a large amount of your problem. You don't have to have a scope with parallax adjustment but you do need to learn about parallax and how to account for it. The first step is making sure that your rifle comb is at the correct height so that you can get consistent cheek weld. There are plastic sliding units out there that you bolt onto the stock and these work very well. I've also made do with some thin foam and hockey tape. This looks very ghetto but works extremely well.

Get on youtube and learn about scope parallax and learn about proper cheek weld. Regardless of what rifle you end up with this will be fundamental. I can't find it right now but Kirsten Joy Weiss did a great video on parallax. Just try to pay attention she is really hot

Edit. I cannot find the video, maybe they had to pull it down for some reason. The video was on Gunwerk's channel. Kirsten has her own youtube channel now so maybe that has something to do with the video disappearing.

 

[CJ6]

Don't know how many other magnum rifles of yours you have shot from the Lead Sled but I would put this rifle on bags front and rear so it can slide back with recoil a bit. The jolt of being held back by the rigid butt plate and the weight of the sled does nothing for consistency. I would expect more vertical dispersion when using it.
The 783 is a very basic factory rifle, .7-1.0 moa would be about what one might expect from a plastic stock with no bedding block. How is your trigger pull weight? 2-3 Ibs. would be nice.
However! There is a load out there that it should like. Keep your barrel cool - shoot 3-5 shot groups and then let it cool if you don't already. Many folks have had very good luck with Reloader 22. You might consider Federal and/or CCI match magnum primers. Check your brass neck concentricity. If they are .003" thicker on one side than the other your bullet is misaligned a tad. Sometimes it matters, sometimes not so much. Seating depth is more of an issue with VLD bullets but there will be a sweet spot for the others as well. Try .020" off the lands to start with conventional ogive projectiles. Find a powder charge that seems to work. Then adjust seating in .005" increments.
Spend $$ on the best bullets you can afford that will get the job done. You might consider a stiffer stock in the future and glass bed that one. Consider reading some of the Thread under Reloading titled Load Development at 100 yards started by Erik Cortina. Tons of useful info there.

+1

 

[Fursty]

This scope does have a parallax adjustment.

 

[Fursty]

Here is the last set of targets.
RL26
68.0 gr, 68.3, 68.6, 68.9

 

[Spin Drift]

This scope does have a parallax adjustment.

My bad

Here is the last set of targets.
RL26
68.0 gr, 68.3, 68.6, 68.9

That is pretty awful for sure. Do you have another scope you can swap on there just to make sure your scope isn't broken?

Hard for me to tell without actually being there but it sounds like your gun is pretty terrible. I wonder if that should be sent to Remington for warranty because even a cheap gun should do better.

 

[Fursty]

No other scope, but I have had some tight groups with H4831SC at around 2600 fps. Now it isn't anywhere close to where I want to be speed wise (it was less than 1 moa though), but if I can show some accuracy at least at that one point, does that help me eliminate the scope as an issue or eliminate the fact that the rifle can't shoot groups at 1 moa?

 

[Spin Drift]

No other scope, but I have had some tight groups with H4831SC at around 2600 fps. Now it isn't anywhere close to where I want to be speed wise (it was less than 1 moa though), but if I can show some accuracy at least at that one point, does that help me eliminate the scope as an issue or eliminate the fact that the rifle can't shoot groups at 1 moa?

I think that you are right and that would probably eliminate the scope.

When you were working with your H-4831 load and found accuracy at 2600 how much further up the scale did you test beyond that? Did you go all the way up until you saw pressure signs?

 

[Spin Drift]

Have you confirmed that your barrel is actually free floated?
I would also pull the stock off and make sure everything looks ok in there.

 

[Fursty]

I have pulled the stock off and it looks ok and all bolts are tight.

The free floating.. I think so. I can run paper all the way down between barrel and stock.

I did try folding paper many times so it was a tight fit and shot 5 rounds. It did not like that at all.

 

[Spin Drift]

I have pulled the stock off and it looks ok and all bolts are tight.

The free floating.. I think so. I can run paper all the way down between barrel and stock.

I did try folding paper many times so it was a tight fit and shot 5 rounds. It did not like that at all.

It really sounds like you have given it a good go. My vote goes for a new gun.