Need a clarification with Winchester 748

[Fred LI]

Hi Guys,
I recently came across several hundred rounds of loaded .223 and 5.56 that I am pulling apart for the powder. Load data was noted on each box. Some is noted as simply "748" and others are noted "WW748". Both are obviously ball powders, but the WW748 appears a little darker in color than the powder from the cases noted as simply 748. I'll probably wind up calling Hodgen tomorrow (Monday), but my curiosity has gotten the best of me. Can anyone shed any light on this? Thanks.

 

[Kurz]

Some 'color' changes can be attributed to:

Deterrents coat the exterior of the propellant granules to reduce the initial
burning rate on the surface as well as to reduce initial flame temperature and
ignitability. The coating also broadens the pressure peak and increases
efficiency. Deterrents may be a penetrating type such as Herkoteâ, dibutyl
phthalate, dinitrotoluene, ethyl centralite, methyl centralite, or dioctyl
phthalate; or an inhibitor type such as Vinsolâ resin.

or

Dyes are added mainly for identification purposes.

Other ingredients may be one of the following:

A graphite glaze used to coat the powder to improve flow and packing
density as well as to reduce static sensitivity and increase conductivity
Bore erosion coatings applied as a glaze to reduce heat transfer to the
barrel, but uncommon in small-arms propellants
Ignition aid coatings that are most commonly used in ball powders to
improve surface oxygen balance.

 

[Fred LI]

Thank you sir, but do know whether or not they are the same powders, as far as charge weight is concerned?

 

[Jager]

Based on what you noted, "748" and "WW748" would broadly be assumed to be the same powder - Winchester's W748 ball powder. A slight color difference could easily be down to lot-to-lot variation.

But "I recently came across" is a comment loaded with opportunity for things to go sideways. I personally wouldn't dream of trying to recover/reuse powder that I didn't have 100% certainty of its origin and identification.

 

[Fred LI]

Based on what you noted, "748" and "WW748" would broadly be assumed to be the same powder - Winchester's W748 ball powder. A slight color difference could easily be down to lot-to-lot variation.

But "I recently came across" is a comment loaded with opportunity for things to go sideways. I personally wouldn't dream of trying to recover/reuse powder that I didn't have 100% certainty of its origin and identification.

100% agree and unless a rep from Hodgdon can 100% verify, this stuff may be destined to fertilize the garden.

 

[snert]

Save the call. No rep with a lick of sense is going to diagnose that question and assume that liability. Shoot em or dump em depending on your level of risk aversion.

 

[JSH]

Am with the rest above. WW748/748 one and the same label, will vary from lot to lot.
Shoot em or pull and dump.
Several hundred@ 25.0 grains would take 280 to get 1lb of powder. It ain’t worth the hassle to me.

 

[kenhwind]

WW748 is the older designation 748, hasn't been used in awhile.
W748 is the current designation..

I do not even salvage my own powder from my own loads unless I am 100% sure of what powder it is.

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

To My knowledge, there has been NO "noticeable change", in WW- 748 Powder,.. since inception.
I've been shooting it for more than, 30 Years with,.. NO Problems.
IMO,.. Blend it, Stirring slowly, put it in PLASTIC Cans ( RE-Label ), Re-TEST IT and, go Shoot, the chit out of, it

 

[Fred LI]

To My knowledge, there has been NO "noticeable change", in WW- 748 Powder,.. since inception.
I've been shooting it for more than, 30 Years with,.. NO Problems.
IMO,.. Blend it, Stirring slowly, put it in PLASTIC Cans ( RE-Label ), Re-TEST IT and, go Shoot, the chit out of, it

 

[Fred LI]

Hey, thanks so much for the reply. Only using for fireforming some brass, not for match and I really appreciate the response.

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

I use a "Hot" Load of, 25.7 gr's of W-748 with, 60 gr. NBT's and 65 gr. GK's @ 2,800 FPS out of, a 16", 1-7 Twist Adams Arms Piston Rifle to get, SUB 1 MOA Group's at 100 yds,. Winter or Summer !
IF, "Fireforming" Only, I'd use, a full grain,. LESS

 

[243winxb]

https://www.ilrc.ucf.edu/powders/sample_detail.php?powder_id=38

Photos of 6 different lots of 748. All a little different in color.

Scroll down, note Manufacturer.

Google search - 748BR Ball Rifle propellant introduced in 1968 and replaced by 748 in 1973

 

[Fred LI]

Good info there, Bill

I use a "Hot" Load of, 25.7 gr's of W-748 with, 60 gr. NBT's and 65 gr. GK's @ 2,800 FPS out of, a 16", 1-7 Twist Adams Arms Piston Rifle to get, SUB 1 MOA Group's at 100 yds,. Winter or Summer !
IF, "Fireforming" Only, I'd use, a full grain,. LESS

Definitely, that was the plan, use the lightest load to 69gr SMK's down range just for fire forming. For match, I'm very happy with 22.7gr of 8208, which gives me sub 1 MOA at our range here on Long Island. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Fred LI]

https://www.ilrc.ucf.edu/powders/sample_detail.php?powder_id=38

Photos of 6 different lots of 748. All a little different in color.

Scroll down, note Manufacturer.

Good info for sure. Thanks very much for the reply. Definitely feel a bit more secure now.

 

[TTE]

Weight the powder from each case. If it's the same charge weight ...... take your chances if you like. Personally, I would make greener grass with it. For me, better safe than sorry

 

[markm87]

Sorta off topic, but isn't powder non-water soluble? And thus not really functional as fertilizer?

 

[SKWERLZ]

I had some really old ww748, it was blackish compared to my more modern w748 being more graphiteish, loads for both were identical considering it’s a bulk 223 loadings powder and my favorite for blaster ammunition.
I think the speed difference was approximately 15 fps with similar charges.

 

[CJ6]

The was also "748 DATA" powder sold in clear/white gallon jugs. I have some here but not in the original container. I don't recall the maker Accurate/Thunderbird/Pulldown ????