Necking Down Cases

[PMA3]

Using the 6.5 X 47 case as the example being necked down to 6 X 47, how would a 6 x 47 body die be helpful as the first step (before running the case in a Forster FL die) when the body die supposedly only sizes the body and doesn't touch the neck? Also, I've read on this site that a 6BR body die could be used if you didn't have a 6 X 47 body die.....why would you use a DIFFERENT CALIBER?

Looking forward to learning more about this procedure.

Paul from PA

 

[Eddie Harren]

I use a Redding 6BR die and only run the cases in until the neck is sized down. I also use a 6BR seating die to seat bullets. After I have fire formed a couple of cases, 3 times each, I send them to Harrell's Precision in order to purchase a 6x47 neck/bump/body die.

 

[spclark]

Using the 6.5 X 47 case as the example being necked down to 6 X 47, how would a 6 x 47 body die be helpful as the first step (before running the case in a Forster FL die) when the body die supposedly only sizes the body and doesn't touch the neck?

It won't; if you want to size a 6.5mm neck to 6mm you need to use a die intended for working with 6mm necks. A body-only die might get you close but you'd still need a full-length or neck-only die to finish the operation.

Also, I've read on this site that a 6BR body die could be used if you didn't have a 6 X 47 body die.....why would you use a DIFFERENT CALIBER?

You've mis-read something. 6BR and 6x47 are the same caliber; they both use 6mm bullets. A 6BR die that sizes the neck can be used on 6.5x47 brass to size necks to 6mm because the cases are longer than 6BR but the case diameter and taper are virtually the same. Neither cartridge's body-only dies are suitable.

 

[mikecr]

Also, I've read on this site that a 6BR body die could be used if you didn't have a 6 X 47 body die.....why would you use a DIFFERENT CALIBER?

A 6br and 6x47L are the SAME caliber(6mm, 24cal), and similar cartridges, as the 6x47L is a longer 6br. They both use the 30-06 .473 case, and 30deg shoulders.

how would a 6 x 47 body die be helpful as the first step (before running the case in a Forster FL die) when the body die supposedly only sizes the body and doesn't touch the neck?

Well, for those using only FL dies, who want to neck down a cal, it is a lot cheaper to use a body die than to buy a bushing die and at least 2 bushings.
IMO the neck-down results would also be better using a body die, than bushings here, due to the less abrupt 30deg forming over a very harsh down sizing with a bushing.
Bushings do not function well for sizing over 5-8thou at a time(which is why it would take an intermediate bushing(25cal) for 26 down to 24 cal.
Even with multiple bushings I doubt you'd be able to form with them to 6mm without losing some neck length, as brass will still springback from the bushings. You're not actually reforming the same shoulder angle with Redding/Wilson bushings.
A body die does exactly this.
I wouldn't even use a FL die, as there is no need to in this forming.

 

[PMA3]

It looks like I used the wrong word at the end of my first paragraph...should have read"cartridge", not caliber...I know the 6BR is a 6MM but was concerned about any difference in case dimensions. My 6 X 47 has a .267 neck (if that matters in this example) and I necked down the new brass with ONLY the Forster FL die before I neck turned....don't seem to have any donuts or other brass problems after firing 80 cases five times each.

Some say you can't neck down cases two calibers with only a FL die (.26 to .24) without a step in between, thus advocating the body die step in between. Others say necking two calibers down with a FL die is not a problem. I'm really looking for the pros and cons of both arguments for future cases I will be necking down.
I guess I still don't understand how you could only use a body die, that does not touch the neck, to reduce the neck from 6.5 to 6MM.

Paul from PA

 

[4xforfun]

When I neck the 6.5 down to 6mm, I use the 6-47 body die for one reason. I NEVER have lost a case. When using a 6MM FL die I occasionaly collapse a sholder when squeezing them down. I have ZERO loss using the body die. The next step is simply running them through you standard neck or FL die.

 

[nicholst55]

Has anyone tried running the 6.5mm case into a 6mm bullet seating die first, and then FL sizing it? I have read that this works well, but the one time I tried it my results were 'inconclusive,' to put it in political terms!

 

[mikecr]

I guess I still don't understand how you could only use a body die, that does not touch the neck, to reduce the neck from 6.5 to 6MM.

Look at it like creating a false shoulder -in reverse. You're creating a 30deg shoulder for 6mm, from 6.5mm necks, all the way down to normal neck-shoulder junction. Then, as always, you fireform to finish.

I know people just jam whatever they have into FL dies & then fireform what they're left with.
It works as fireforming will fix the mess anyway.
But FL dies are not forming dies, and sometimes they're not the best choice for it.
Bushing dies and standard body dies are not forming dies either.
Beyond prediction, based on experience, trial & error get's you to what works best.

I'm fortunate to have a custom Lee Six forming die set(probably the last made & w/WSM&BMG die/bushings), all Sinclair expander mandrels, and a good set of neck bushings. So I can make pretty much anything from anything.
But if I were simply necking down a 6.5x47L, I'd use a body die as suggested. It's a good idea & simple. If I were improving the case, I'd leave a bit of false shoulder to fireform it.

 

[PMA3]

mikecr,

Thanks for the previous info on the neck/shoulder relationship..makes more sense now. If I were to use a 6 X 47 body die as the first step, then a 6 X 47 FL die as the second step, would this two step method be the procedure to follow in order to create the best "formed" case? I don't mind the time involved if the outcome produces the best results.

Last question....I set my FL die so the bottom of the die just touches the shell holder when the ram is fully extended.....would the body die set up be the same?

Thanks...Paul

 

[mikecr]

I'm just suggesting that FL sizing isn't needed.
I don't see any reason to FL size the new case.
You set up a body die just as you would for shoulder bumping -just enough(not bottomed out against a shellholder).
This will form new shoulder from some of the 6.5mm neck. Then partial NS with appropriate 6mm bushing and fire-form to produce your 6x47L.

Once you have fully formed the cartridge, it makes sense to FL size them, or not. A choice.