Necking down 221 to 17

[double g]

What is the best approach, using bushings in a two step or buying Redding form die.
DG

 

[swd]

I always did it in 2 steps. Bullberry makes a double ended necking die. About 20 cal on one side and 18 on the other. Works great.

 

[rickiesrevenge]

I've done it both ways. I like the bullberry double ended forming die better.

Aaron

 

[double g]

ordered one today

 

[L.Sherm]

+1 with Aaron

 

[Catfish]

If your looking for the cheap way, just run your brass through the seating die then the FL sizing die. No farther than your going there is no need for expensive form dies. If your going with Redding bushing dies you will have to just but 1 intermediate bushing.

 

[bobcat93]

Oh..I have been dealing with this and have spent alot of money on dies to make lapua 221 fireball brass into 17 fireball brass with out the need to turn necks...
Here is my method..and the dies I had to use.. perhaps some one has a cheaper way but I couldn't figure one out...
I have a Redding T-7 press, so once everything is set up it was no big deal..
1) 221 fireball die- full length size with decaping assembly removed. Die set to contact shell holder.
2) 17 fireball body die- set to contact shell holder
3) Redding 17 mach lV trim die- set to size 1/2 the neck. ( I found more neck sizing would deform or crush the case)
4) 221 fireball bushing die- with 17 fireball decaping assembly installed ( I used a .195" bushing) set to only size neck.
5) 17 fireball full length side die- set to size case( not bump shoulder)...
6) anneal
Sized cases came out at 1.40" load books say 1.410" ..they get a little longer after fire forming but not much..
I shoot alot of 221, and 17 fireball so the die investment was done over time not all at once..the method I used above finally gave me great looking brass that had square neck, shoulder juncture, and square case mouth with out the need to turn necks..I think I wasted alot of good expensive lapua brass to figure out this method and at 70-80$ per 100pc. It was not cheap..
They say a smart man learns from his mistakes, but a wise man learns from the mistakes of others....this is my 17 fireball ball all loaded up ready to fire form.

 

[bobcat93]

I have tried alot of different methods, and all I figured out was how to put expensive brand new Lapua 221 fireball brass in my reloading press and crush it..Or push it so far out of its center line it was ruined..
There is no fast or easy way or (cheap) way to do this..In my opinion the one, two methods cause so much stress on the case it's just not worth it ..If you want long lasting accurate brass..
Some guys say they get by with two steps and it's ready to load..It never worked for me..And I have followed there direction to the "T"..
Do not try to anneal untill after your case is formed because the brass will be to soft and you will crush it....Also I've tried this with Remington brass..And what I have found is factory brass is to soft and gave me poor results..The method I listed above worked very well for factory new Lapua 221 fireball brass..At least in my set up.. also after fire forming I took the time to full length size all cases and turn necks..then anneal again...It have given me the results I was looking for...I hope it helps or sheds a little lite on this subject for you..
Maybe you will find a less complicated method and can post your findings..

 

[ChuckMiller]

Some guys act like moving a case nk diameter from .224 diameter to .172 is not a big deal. It's probably the biggest jump you'll make in case forming and there is no easy way to do it. The smaller size just compounds the problems. I use 2 sets of form dies to make 223 brass into 17MK4, 223 to 221FB and 221FB to 17mk4 and it's still one gigantic PIA. The method I use left a lot of "bodies" in it's wake until I came up with a system that worked and like Bobcat93 I don't anneal anything until I'm done. I didn't go down this road by choice, if you remember we went through a period when no 221FB brass was available, period. Having a 221FB, 20VT, 17MK4, and a 300 Whisper forced me into it.