Neck turning help, 22br, please

[J P Brown]

OK, so I'm necking down 6br to 22br, with a full length die. Pushing the thickening to the neck shoulder junction. But only just as not to create run-out, or at least too much.
I'm turning for a .252 neck, I want 12.5 thou neck wall thickness.
I'm using a k&m Turner with there expander mandrel.
With the necking down I get a thickness, like a donut at the neck shoulder junction ( on the outside) I understand this is normal.
So first I want to remove this. It usually takes a couple of cuts, then a light neck cut, which is usually a couple more cuts to get to .0125.
I use imperial lube on the case neck and cutter. I also use a electric screwdriver.

The problem even if I get a full clean up cut the neck varies .5 to 1 thou still.
I have noticed each cut the case neck doesn't seem as tight on the cutter, maybe this is my problem....
Is it normal to have to full length size then expand more than once, ( between cuts) to keep the case neck tight on the cutter between cuts?
I'm not sure what's going on...

Any tips or help much appreciated, thank you.

 

['Freak]

Maybe cutting at too many RPM, maybe still too much friction whilst spinning on the mandrel.
Maybe if you clean up neck turn while it’s still at 6mm, size down to .22 caliber then check wall thickness, and finish turn accordingly. The base of what was 6mm neck becomes a portion of the new .22 caliber’s shoulder nearest the neck/shoulder junction. Squishing down a 6mm neck when beginning with an overall consistent wall thickness should thicken it over the full length of the new .22 caliber neck, all to the same degree.

 

[jds holler]

Are ya doing your initial FL sizing with a bushing die or standard FL sizer?

I do mine with a standard Redding FL sizing die, and it makes a pretty smooth transition from shoulder to neck.

And I'm waaaayy lazier than you about my turning. I'm going just one pass to get mine down to a .245 final neck dia. with bullet seated. My chamber neck mic's at .248". I take the cutter just a tad into the shoulder. Not too worried about doughnuts, cause I don't seat anything back that far.

I use electric drill on a fairly slow rpm for power. jd

 

[NorCalMikie]

One pass with 6 BR brass in a 22 BR full length resizing die, done! No neck turning=more time to shoot!!

 

[Gabe22BR]

One pass with 6 BR brass in a 22 BR full length resizing die, done! No neck turning=more time to shoot!!

Has been my experience as well.....

 

[BoydAllen]

One thing that you may be experiencing is the effect of time on the IDs of expanded necks. I discovered this long ago when I expanded more case necks than I wanted to turn in one session. Although the necks had fit the turning mandrel when I turned them right after expanding, they were too tight a couple of days later...so I had to expand them again with the same mandrel before finishing that lot. This also shows up when seating bullets. As an experiment size some cases and set them aside for a week, then size some of the same lot of cases, right before seating bullets in both the cases that were just sized and those that had been sized a week earlier. The difference in force required to seat bullets should be quite evident. Those that were sized the week before will require more force.

 

[J P Brown]

Thanks everyone.
I have thought about turning when it's 6mm.
The electric screwdriver driver does 150rpm I believe. The amount of people using a way faster drill makes me think the screwdriver should be OK. But I could be wrong.
I use the full length Redding die. But it gives fairly horrible run-out. But firing then using a bushing die sorts that out.
My thickening at the shoulder/neck junction is the same as you see here on the 22br page.
I expand right before turning, usually no more than 30 cases. But it usually takes two days. As in the electric screwdriver goes flat then I charge overnight and finish the next day.
I'm almost keen to try Norma cases as I believe they have a thicker neck, but they don't seem popular. And probably for a reason.
For my re-expanding between cuts or at least the final cut I thought I might use the full length die without expander ball, then use the k&m expander.
Or try turning at 6mm first.
I might even try the just one cut. But I feel it's a bit harsh, and with so much case pressure using the electric screwdriver it won't help case concentricity.
Another thing iv noticed and am unsure of is.... Once iv cut just into the shoulder the cut you see on the shoulder can vary, as in be, thick and thin, a cut with run-out if you like. Not a nice parralel cut right around.
Seems to have got worse since the very first cases I turned.

 

[Richard Jones]

And make sure your expander and turning mandrel gee haw with each other. I've had to polish a couple of expander mandrels because they opened up the neck too much and made a sloppy fit on the turner mandrel. No way your brass can be consistent if it's not a good fit.

 

[hogpatrol]

I turn them when they are 6mm using the 21st Century tool. Then step down with bushings in a Redding competition neck die. I have a .250 chamber.

As Columbo would say, " A, just one more thing". Get an extra battery.

 

[boltfluter]

I make mine the same as hogpatrol. Turn at 6mm and then neck down. Works great and also helps with any donut issues down the road. I have tried every method under the sun and this one works best for me. You can also leave a little extra thickness and finish turn at .22 if you wish. A win win in my opinion. Good luck. Great cartridge to shoot. Many coyotes are not happy though. Lol.

Paul

www.boltfluting.com

 

[jds holler]

Once iv cut just into the shoulder the cut you see on the shoulder can vary, as in be, thick and thin, a cut with run-out if you like. Not a nice parralel cut right around.

I have also experienced this, and don't like it. I think it is caused by the shoulders becoming distorted/irregular from the neck-down process. I also think that the best solution for this and other problems, is probably to turn at the 6mm diameter when the brass is at it's most uniform stage.

I'll admit that I've gotten kind of fast and dirty about doing this, since I got a butt-load of 7BR Rem brass at a very good deal, and have been converting them to 22BR. The first step in my neck-down involves the use of a shortened .243 neck sizer die.(one of my cheap solutions) By the time I'm done with these, the shoulders are sloped and rounded, run-out is horrible, and they are in need of a good fire-form shot.

Soooo, I slap them together with some inexpensive bullets with some powder that is less than ideal for this cartridge and go shoot six groups on a target. --- all of them print sub MOA and are just fine for squirrel shooting. Kinda makes me wonder if we don't worry a little too much about the small stuff. jd

 

[J P Brown]

Thanks guys, I'm going to get another electric screwdriver.
I think I will try the cutting at 6mm.
Are the carbide parts for the trimmer worth it?
How many firings do you guys do on the cases, iv done 12.

Thank you.

 

[tclaunch]

Carbide is defiantly worth it. The K&M site offers more options than vendors, so I'd look there.

 

[Farmerjoe]

Still on the subject of .22 Br brass prep.

To those with a "no turn" neck.
Do you take a cut out of the shoulder?

If the answer is no do you get donuts forming?
If so do they present an issue? I know this will vary with freebore and bullet choice.

If they do cause a problem, do you use a reamer and cut the donut out or do you push it to the outside and turn it off?

If you choose one method over the other, why so?

Do you find that necking down in one pass with a proper FL sizer causes much run out?

If so what techniques/equipment/tools can help reduce run out?

Hopefully this isn't high jacking the thread completely!

Thanks,
Joe

 

[NorCalMikie]

One pass with 6 BR brass in a full length 22 BR die. Done. No "donuts" yet. Start off with the lightest bullets you can and go heavier as the throat wears. That takes a ZERO freebore chamber but I planned ahead.
If a donut forms, go to a lighter (shorter or BT) bullet OR seat above the donut. If it's still in the way for proper seating, push it to the outside with a mandrel and turn it off. Don't cut any more than needed.
Never checked run out. KISS!! They're all going in the same hole so why bother?