Neck Thickness- dumb question probably

[Fotheringill]

Here is what I have and understand I created my own dilemma.

500 rounds of unfired brass, then fired in one .223 rifle.
In the middle of this, I neck turned about half.
Then all mixed back together (stupidly).
When neck sizing with a Redding Competition Neck die, there are various bushings needed for the whole batch of 500 to resize so a bullet can be gripped during seating and not being loose in the cases. This varied between .243 and .247. I then used various sized bushings to get a bit of grip.
This was not a quick process.

I then started using a Lee collett neck sizing die. The mandrel sized the inside (obviously). When seating with a Redding Competition die, as best as I can see, there was the same ram pressure needed to have a consistent grip on each bullet, no matter what the OD was. Nothing was too loose to hold and no discernible extra pressure when raising the ram.

Now, the magic question-

Turn all the necks to .243 OR just sort the loaded rounds for shooting per outside diameter and continue with the Lee?

I will NOT be making the same mistake again and will segregate rounds carefully.

 

[Snake Pliskin]

Is this a gasser or a bolt rifle?

Once your brass was all mixed up, couldn't you make out by the shininess which one's got outside neck turned?

The general idea is to take a measurement of the neck OD with a bullet seated. Then subtract .001" from that and you should start with that number/size bushing.

Most people, AFAIK, measure the thickness of the necks and turn if they are way inconsistent. Some turn regardless. Some will recommend you run the expander mandrel through the case necks to push deformities etc to the outside of the brass.......which the outside neck turner should correct.

Baby steps.......go slow.....take notes.....walk before you can run.

The above is just my understanding of it all. Many more much more xperienced hand loaders here, than I. Good luck.

 

[eric n]

Don't worry, you aren't alone, I just did that recently too.
If you segregate them by batches, how many will you have? I only have 2 batches so its easy to segregate. If I had more then 2, I would anneal and turn them all to the smallest. (I use a redding s die as well, I don't have any experience with the Lee)
Shoot the ones sized with the Lee, you will get your answer.
I can say in my gun, the .003 neck difference doesn't make any difference as long as I use the corresponding bushing .003 smaller then loaded neck diameter.

How much variance do you have in your turned necks?
The short necks on a .223 can be a pain to measure. If you have a lot of variance, you might need to revisit your measuring or turning technique.

 

[hogpatrol]

BTDT. Scrapped all and started over. What's your time worth? To me this is another case of tripping over dollars to pick up pennies. YMMV.

 

[CharlieNC]

Clearly since the Lee sizes to the same ID the neck "stretch" will be the same, so what impact does a little more material due to thickness have on the neck tension? Effect of chamber clearance?
I would shoot 10 of each to find out what the target tells; unless you're shooting serious matches the difference,if any, may be acceptable.

 

[Fotheringill]

Charlie- I am serious about shooting only in my own mind. I do not compete but your suggestion is exactly what I was thinking of doing and monitoring the result. I know it is not going to be a spectacular difference, but there may be a difference nonetheless.

hogpatrol- I understand and agree with the time factor, but it is something that has been bugging me for a while. Also, If I buy new brass, I then will have to fire, anneal, trim, champher, turn, neck size, etc. another 500 rounds all of which will make a cranky old man crankier.

 

[hogpatrol]

Charlie- I am serious about shooting only in my own mind. I do not compete but your suggestion is exactly what I was thinking of doing and monitoring the result. I know it is not going to be a spectacular difference, but there may be a difference nonetheless.

hogpatrol- I understand and agree with the time factor, but it is something that has been bugging me for a while. Also, If I buy new brass, I then will have to fire, anneal, trim, champher, turn, neck size, etc. another 500 rounds all of which will make a cranky old man crankier.

Yeah, that would make me crankier too. A hundred rounds maybe but not 500. Can you mic the neck thicknesses to get an idea of which ones positively are neck turned and segregate them accordingly? Hope you get it sorted out. That's a lot of brass.

 

[Fotheringill]

That is exactly what I did the last three evenings. About 250 were .245, another 100 .244 and the rest were anywhere from .248 to .246 with a few @ .243. It is ok while watching reruns on TV but not otherwise. Thickness itself no, but only mic for OD.

 

[Webster]

That is exactly what I did the last three evenings. About 250 were .245, another 100 .244 and the rest were anywhere from .248 to .246 with a few @ .243. It is ok while watching reruns on TV but not otherwise. Thickness itself no, but only mic for OD.

I wouldn't think measuring the OD can accurately relate to wall thickness when you need about 0.0005” accuracy or better. Cannot imagin a need for 500 prepped cases. I would use a tubing mic or run each case on the neck turner as punishment. If you buy new cases you will have to spend the same amount of time. If it’s a factory barrel and not used for any serious competition (hunting or plinking) you probably won’t see a difference in group size with a mixed batch. You should be able see a neck turned case by looking at the color.

You said should I turn all the necks to .243" OD. This should cause a second real problem. You turn to a specific neck thickness. Buy or borrow a tubing mic. Once you get the neck turner to give a certain neck thickness you can turn cases for years without needing to readjust it. Your creating more problems than your solving. It's a .223 not a comp rifle. There should only be one correct bushing to use. Sounds like you are using 5 bushing diameters on the same batch of cases. This is crazy.

 

[hogpatrol]

Cannot imagine a need for 500 prepped cases.

For PDs, 1000 is more like it.

 

[Webster]

For PDs, 1000 is more like it.

PD in New York?

 

[hogpatrol]

PD in New York?

It depends on your mission. I have 800 rounds shipped and waiting for me in Texas for a PD hunt next weekend and I live in no centerfire Delaware. Last time I went there for PDs, I shipped 600 20 practical and 600 6BR and didn't come home with one loaded round. The wind was howling.

 

[Deleted old_dood]

Mark, I could lend you my tubing mic so you wouldn't have to load bullets to measure them. OTOH, a magnifying glass may help you determine which you've turned.

 

[Brians356]

Determine what thickness the thinnest necks were turned to, then turn them all to that thickness. Once you find one of the thinnest cases, it should be simple to adjust the turner to that thickness, using that case as a depth stop while adjusting. Once you get the turner set, run every case through it, even ones that won't be touched, or will barely be skimmed. That's faster than pre-sorting them all. If this is a varmint rifle, don't agonize over this as if a big match or a world record score was at stake. The PDs will never know the difference.
-

 

[dkhunt14]

hogpatrol- I understand and agree with the time factor, but it is something that has been bugging me for a while. Also, If I buy new brass, I then will have to fire, anneal, trim, champher, turn, neck size, etc. another 500 rounds all of which will make a cranky old man crankier.

Why would you have to fireform? I shoot new brass and a lot of times it is more accurate forming. I have shot many 1000 yard groups that were great. Now these are match guns. I shoot the bullet in the lands. I can't see where a factory gun would shoot any worse.
I'm
I would set the turner up to just touch one of the thin ones and turn the rest to match. Matt

 

[Brians356]

Why would you have to fireform?

IMO you really need one firing to properly neck turn: Fire once, FL resize, expander mandrel, neck turn, neck size, reload, ...

I can't imagine myself neck turning virgin unfired cases (assuming OP intends to keep neck turning any new brass, maybe he's had enough of it.)

PS

Incidentally, here's how I adjust my neck turner's depth of cut:



I could use a previously-turned case the same way.
-

 

[dkhunt14]

IMO you really need one firing to properly neck turn: Fire once, FL resize, expander mandrel, neck turn, neck size, reload, ...

I can't imagine myself neck turning virgin unfired cases (assuming OP intends to keep neck turning any new brass, maybe he's had enough of it.)

PS

Incidentally, here's how I adjust my neck turner's depth of cut:

View attachment 1005721

I could use a previously-turned case the same way.
-

You do not need a firing to neck turn brass. Almost every BR shooter turns there brass when new. They turn with a slight bit of cutting into the shoulder so you don't have a donut. I hate turning fired brass. Matt

 

[hogpatrol]

I've found it easier to neck turn brass as described in Matt's post, when new.

 

[Brians356]

I've found it easier to neck turn brass as described in Matt's post, when new.

Easier, sure, can't argue with that.
-

 

[dmoran]

Like Matt, I turn them when there new, which puts the "stop point" into the shoulder when fire-forming, which eliminates donuts and tapers that can be caused from a turners stop point.
I also re-turn after they have been fired a couple times, with the same turner setting, which always cleans off highs.
Donovan