Neck tension, taper crimping, annealing,what's up with that?

[kujuak]

I have been considering buying an annealer but not sure it is worth it.


I taper crimp most of my loads. Consistent neck tension is touted as a benefit of annealing. Won't my taper crimping do the same thing (for my purposes)?

My mentor/ shooting buddy is a serious bench rest shooter so I am hesitant to take his advice about the glories of annealing my brass...I mean he neck turns his brass, segregates his bullets by weight, weighs each charge on a lab gram scale. I'm never gonna do that.He has been pushing hard for me to get an annealer.

So far I'm seeing some loosening of primer pockets with my multiple reloaded brass and cannot remember getting any neck splitting, I 'm up to 6 cycles with my Lapua brass.So brass life so far is not a concern, I suspect I may wear out before my brass does.

I am in my 70's, no longer do competitions. I reload for hunting, playing with my milsurps and old lever guns. I have a few expensive long range rifles I load for in 308,6.5creedmoor and 223. I shoot them out to 1,000 yds to educate and amuse myself. Can't eat varmints so I don't shoot them . As for bench resting, I've never been much for religions .

So thumbs up or thumbs down for me spending money on an annealer? (I figure there must be someone in this learned crowd that has been down this road before.)

 

[clowdis]

For what you're doing I think buying an annealer will be nothing more than a waste of money. If you're in your 70's, a casual shooter, then you'll never save enough money on brass to justify the purchase of the annealer. Borrow your buddies if you really feel the need to try it.

 

[K22]

I am not against annealing if done properly by a skilled and knowledgeable reloader.

However, I've reloaded for over 50+ years and never annealed but I am or was, just a hunter albeit varmints and predators and now mostly a recreational precision shooter which requires a certain level of precision which I have been able to achieve without annealing.

I obtain about 15 to 18 reloads on my cases by carefully monitoring my F/L sizing with a bump gauge and caliper. I believe this is a good return on investment.

I never had loose primer pockets. While I am not an expert, I believe this is due to case head expansion from repeated high-pressure loads rather than from a lack of annealing.

The question you need to answer is do I want to buy another piece of equipment and add another step to my reloading regime and what do I hope to gain. Of course, you will have to learn how to properly anneal which your benchrest friend could teach you.

 

[Webster]

I have been considering buying an annealer but not sure it is worth it.


I taper crimp most of my loads. Consistent neck tension is touted as a benefit of annealing. Won't my taper crimping do the same thing (for my purposes)?

My mentor/ shooting buddy is a serious bench rest shooter so I am hesitant to take his advice about the glories of annealing my brass...I mean he neck turns his brass, segregates his bullets by weight, weighs each charge on a lab gram scale. I'm never gonna do that.He has been pushing hard for me to get an annealer.

So far I'm seeing some loosening of primer pockets with my multiple reloaded brass and cannot remember getting any neck splitting, I 'm up to 6 cycles with my Lapua brass.So brass life so far is not a concern, I suspect I may wear out before my brass does.

I am in my 70's, no longer do competitions. I reload for hunting, playing with my milsurps and old lever guns. I have a few expensive long range rifles I load for in 308,6.5creedmoor and 223. I shoot them out to 1,000 yds to educate and amuse myself. Can't eat varmints so I don't shoot them . As for bench resting, I've never been much for religions .

So thumbs up or thumbs down for me spending money on an annealer? (I figure there must be someone in this learned crowd that has been down this road before.)

If you want to anneal so the necks don't split, just use a propane torch. This will save you $400-1200. Won't your shooting buddy anneal for you/

 

[RegionRat]

Here is a suggestion, take it or leave it...

My first inclination is to say you got this far without annealing, so skip it.
Then on second thought, who is to say?

Why not take about 30 to 40 of your 1000 cases, and have your buddy anneal them for a trial spin?

The worst that happens is you are out of tune, or you then know for certain you love or hate it.
Poor annealing is usually worse than no annealing. YMMV

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

It would take me about 10 minutes to anneal 50 pieces. Cordless drill/deep socket and propane torch. I don't lose brass to loose pockets, clickers or donuts. But I don't load over data max, haven't needed sb die(even for range brass) and don't neck up brass. I've saved the neck(case) of older brass from splitting by annealing. I also taper crimp some of my ammo(AR). Use a mandrel to expand necks and bushing die to minimize neck work. And anneal some of my other hard to find brass.

 

[kujuak]

If you want to anneal so the necks don't split, just use a propane torch. This will save you $400-1200. Won't your shooting buddy anneal for you/

Here is a suggestion, take it or leave it...

My first inclination is to say you got this far without annealing, so skip it.
Then on second thought, who is to say?

Why not take about 30 to 40 of your 1000 cases, and have your buddy anneal them for a trial spin?

The worst that happens is you are out of tune, or you then know for certain you love or hate it.
Poor annealing is usually worse than no annealing. YMMV

I am going to run that idea by him. Thanks for the idea. It is pretty obvious but I am not of the habit of imposing on people ( a good way to lose buddies) so it never occurred to me to do such a trial .I will of course offer to pay for his time and effort.
Thanks!

 

[snert]

I am 61, been loading since i was 14. Sarted annealing for my varmint and BR guns only, and see a benefit there. But I am also getting older (I hope for some time to come!) and my eyesight and skills are fading to the point I am not sure I can realize the benefits. I will do it because my brass is rare and I want it to last but honestly, I think if I had a buddy who was telling me to anneal, I would ask him to anneal all my stuff and pay him a case of his favorite beverage for it. Or he ain't a friend. Maybe he would let you use his annealer and learn. I certainly wouldn't buy one for what you are doing.

 

[kujuak]

I am 61, been loading since i was 14. Sarted annealing for my varmint and BR guns only, and see a benefit there. But I am also getting older (I hope for some time to come!) and my eyesight and skills are fading to the point I am not sure I can realize the benefits. I will do it because my brass is rare and I want it to last but honestly, I think if I had a buddy who was telling me to anneal, I would ask him to anneal all my stuff and pay him a case of his favorite beverage for it. Or he ain't a friend. Maybe he would let you use his annealer and learn. I certainly wouldn't buy one for what you are doing.

Thank you very much for your sympathetic answer. I am in the car area of you on the train and know very well of what you speak.

 

[RegionRat]

If it didn't have to cross the border, I would gladly run them for you, but you are in Canada.

 

[StumpGrinder]

I have been considering buying an annealer but not sure it is worth it.


I taper crimp most of my loads. Consistent neck tension is touted as a benefit of annealing. Won't my taper crimping do the same thing (for my purposes)?

My mentor/ shooting buddy is a serious bench rest shooter so I am hesitant to take his advice about the glories of annealing my brass...I mean he neck turns his brass, segregates his bullets by weight, weighs each charge on a lab gram scale. I'm never gonna do that.He has been pushing hard for me to get an annealer.

So far I'm seeing some loosening of primer pockets with my multiple reloaded brass and cannot remember getting any neck splitting, I 'm up to 6 cycles with my Lapua brass.So brass life so far is not a concern, I suspect I may wear out before my brass does.

I am in my 70's, no longer do competitions. I reload for hunting, playing with my milsurps and old lever guns. I have a few expensive long range rifles I load for in 308,6.5creedmoor and 223. I shoot them out to 1,000 yds to educate and amuse myself. Can't eat varmints so I don't shoot them . As for bench resting, I've never been much for religions .

So thumbs up or thumbs down for me spending money on an annealer? (I figure there must be someone in this learned crowd that has been down this road before.)

I just anneal my brass with a soldering torch and my fingers or a drill. And I only do it if I start seeing split necks. I to am only a hunter but I do reload a lot. Back when ammo was scarce I bought a bucket of 308 blanks from a scrap yard and turned them into everything from 260 Remington to 8x57 mauser. Moving that much brass I would split a neck about every 10 cases. That was no problem though because I started with the longest 30-06 case, then if it split I trimmed it to be 8x57. And if it split it became 308, 7mm08 or 260. It was a labor of love, turning necks etc, but it gave me brass when there was none. I'm still using them today and as I shoot them I will anneal before reloading just because I know how much the brass has been worked. If you are happy with your reloads and brass life I wouldn't bother.

 

[PerryR]

It was recommended that I anneal my 45-70 Starline brass because I'm shooting black powder cartridge. I use a deep well socket, propane torch and count 1000 one 1000 two done. Hopefully this next batch of rounds will seal better in the chamber. I never bothered annealing my smokeless powder cases.

 

[Webster]

I have been considering buying an annealer but not sure it is worth it.


I taper crimp most of my loads. Consistent neck tension is touted as a benefit of annealing. Won't my taper crimping do the same thing (for my purposes)?

My mentor/ shooting buddy is a serious bench rest shooter so I am hesitant to take his advice about the glories of annealing my brass...I mean he neck turns his brass, segregates his bullets by weight, weighs each charge on a lab gram scale. I'm never gonna do that.He has been pushing hard for me to get an annealer.

So far I'm seeing some loosening of primer pockets with my multiple reloaded brass and cannot remember getting any neck splitting, I 'm up to 6 cycles with my Lapua brass.So brass life so far is not a concern, I suspect I may wear out before my brass does.

I am in my 70's, no longer do competitions. I reload for hunting, playing with my milsurps and old lever guns. I have a few expensive long range rifles I load for in 308,6.5creedmoor and 223. I shoot them out to 1,000 yds to educate and amuse myself. Can't eat varmints so I don't shoot them . As for bench resting, I've never been much for religions .

So thumbs up or thumbs down for me spending money on an annealer? (I figure there must be someone in this learned crowd that has been down this road before.)

Most bullets for the calibers you reload for don't have a crimp groove. I have have never seen a die that says it crimps. I thought crimping was for pistol cases. Neck tension should be good enough for magazine cartridges. Maybe crimp for lever action if the bullet has a crimp grove.. 30 years ago I shot 154 Gr Hornady RN bullets in my 7mm Rem Mag, they had a crimp grove.

 

[Webster]

I have been considering buying an annealer but not sure it is worth it.


I taper crimp most of my loads. Consistent neck tension is touted as a benefit of annealing. Won't my taper crimping do the same thing (for my purposes)?

My mentor/ shooting buddy is a serious bench rest shooter so I am hesitant to take his advice about the glories of annealing my brass...I mean he neck turns his brass, segregates his bullets by weight, weighs each charge on a lab gram scale. I'm never gonna do that.He has been pushing hard for me to get an annealer.

So far I'm seeing some loosening of primer pockets with my multiple reloaded brass and cannot remember getting any neck splitting, I 'm up to 6 cycles with my Lapua brass.So brass life so far is not a concern, I suspect I may wear out before my brass does.

I am in my 70's, no longer do competitions. I reload for hunting, playing with my milsurps and old lever guns. I have a few expensive long range rifles I load for in 308,6.5creedmoor and 223. I shoot them out to 1,000 yds to educate and amuse myself. Can't eat varmints so I don't shoot them . As for bench resting, I've never been much for religions .

So thumbs up or thumbs down for me spending money on an annealer? (I figure there must be someone in this learned crowd that has been down this road before.)

If your getting loose primer pockets the loads are too hot. I have over 20 reloads on my 6BR Lapua cases. Lapua cases are $$$ if you can find them.

 

[6.5 forever]

If you want to anneal so the necks don't split, just use a propane torch. This will save you $400-1200. Won't your shooting buddy anneal for you/

My buddy has a AMP. He anneals for me!

 

[kujuak]

If it didn't have to cross the border, I would gladly run them for you, but you are in Canada.

Most bullets for the calibers you reload for don't have a crimp groove. I have have never seen a die that says it crimps. I thought crimping was for pistol cases. Neck tension should be good enough for magazine cartridges. Maybe crimp for lever action if the bullet has a crimp grove.. 30 years ago I shot 154 Gr Hornady RN bullets in my 7mm Rem Mag, they had a crimp grove.

As I said, I "taper crimp" many of my loads. Lee makes calibre specific taper crimp dies. I always use them with my lever guns and my semi-auto rifles. My pistol caliber dies all have a roll crimp adjustment.Redding makes taper crimp dies for both bottleneck and straight wall cases.I use my taper crimp dies on bullets with and without cannelures. I may not be understanding your reply. I'm always open to learning.
Cheers!

 

[Webster]

As I said, I "taper crimp" many of my loads. Lee makes calibre specific taper crimp dies. I always use them with my lever guns and my semi-auto rifles. My pistol caliber dies all have a roll crimp adjustment.Redding makes taper crimp dies for both bottleneck and straight wall cases.I use my taper crimp dies on bullets with and without cannelures. I may not be understanding your reply. I'm always open to learning.
Cheers!

I thought you were crimping without a crimp cannelures. Might sound like a dumb comment. High power bolt action rifles should not need a crimp unless maybe it's a big magnum with a cannelure. Crimping on most calibers is just one more complicated variable. Neck tension is simpler and variable with bushings. Is it the bullet seater die that crimps. Does crimping without a cannelure damage the bullet?

 

[kujuak]

I use a light taper crimp on my Lapua target ammo cases, a heaver taper crimp on my hunting ammo when the bullets don't have cannelures, and heavy taper crmp wth my magnum hunting rounds and on ammo with hunting bullets that have cannelures. For most calbers there is a taper crimp die devoted to a sngle rifle/bullet combo. After 50 years of shooting/huntng I have settled on rifle/bullet combos pretty much , so no adjustments needed. The times have pulled bullets I have seen no obvious bullet damage. Clearly my approach is not up to Bench Rest or F class shooters but better than factory and most of the guys at my range. I like shootng much more than reloadng.
My buddy s gong to anneal some 3 tmes resized Lapua 308 cases and 3 times resized Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor brass and see how it performs compared to non annealed brass from the same batch.In one of his Applied ballistics books he found no measureable difference when he did a similar (albeit much larger and more rigourous than my plan), concludng the only benefit was increasing brass longevity.