neck sizing with FL die

[palo]

Hi
A couple of guys told me that they can neck size only with a full length die.
I cant see how this is possible.
Am I right or am I missing something ?

 

[338Lapua]

You can resize a small portion of the neck with a fl resizing die but no the entire neck. your much better off with a neck size die

 

[Erik Cortina]

You can do it. Like previously stated it will not resize the entire neck, but that is actually recommended. You should only size about 75-80% of the neck. You will be fine sizing with it.

But why not FL size and neck size at the same time everytime? Your bolt lugs will appreciate it!

 

[fdshuster]

palo: Many different ways to do it, but I prefer to just barely touch the shoulder to gently bump my shoulder back .001" to .002" with each sizing with my Redding Type S, neck bushing dies. Doing it that way I keep just a little resistance when closing the bolt ( keep the lugs lightly lubed), and I don't have the problem of having to readjust the die or use the shims to push the shoulders back ( by removing a shim) when a true FL sizing is required, about after 4 or 5 firings. I do the same with my standard non-bushing dies & it works well for me. I've tried neck sizing only & have never found any advantage, and eventually you're going to have to do a FL anyway, when the bolt gets really hard to close.

 

[mikecr]

Aside from partial bushing neck sizing, the only thing I have to do is bump shoulders.
I don't ever FL size, and don't ever eventually need to.

But if you're in a condition where you do have to FL size, which is common, you might consider a custom bushing/body die. This, so you're not sizing the entire neck with body sizing.
These dies are not overly expensive from factory die makers. I use JLC Precision, which are not expensive either.

 

[bheadboy]

I have for years used fl dies to neck size -my process, good or bad- is to measure the base to shoulder length (as to determine bump) then adjust the die to just touch the shoulder, not move- I then mark and identify the locking ring setting. about 3-5 firings depending on the caliber - i adjust the locking ring to get fl size. after this- reset to ring to mark and i am backto neck size.

Bob

 

[artbosco]

A couple of guys told me that they can neck size only with a full length die. I cant see how this is possible. Am I right or am I missing something?

What you're missing is that eventually the neck size only crowd, eventually will have to F/L size or their brass won't fit in the chamber. At that point they're overworking [moving a greater distance] a hardened brass body to get it back into specs.

By F/L sizing each and every time you reload, the brass is less-worked because your moving the entire case in infinitesimal amounts and total dimensions will stay within specs and provide consistent results time after time.

Consistency is the name of the game. Consistency leads to accuracy.

 

[mikecr]

What you're missing is that eventually the neck size only crowd, eventually will have to F/L size or their brass won't fit in the chamber. At that point they're overworking [moving a greater distance] a hardened brass body to get it back into specs.

Couple things about this aren't actually true.

For one, everyone will not eventually have to FL size. I NEVER do..
I don't have or use any FL sizing dies, and I haven't any issues with this.
In fact, it's possible to burn out a barrel with the reloading of a single case, without ever touching that case with a sizing die of any sort. Just repriming, charging, and seating, and it will never get any more consistent than this.
Is it likely you can do this? NO. But it could be taken to this.

Second, FL dies and chambers are not always matching to provide minimal sizing. Truly, while left to chance, it's unlikely.
Hence all the problems arising with FL sizing, as questioned on every shooting forum. IMO this might actually be the most 'consistent' attribute from the FL sizing 'crowd'.

Third, sizing demands and results are tied to more than dies and methods. There is cartridge design, chamber design, and loads directly affecting both influences.
To suggest that EVERYONE should be doing the same sizing is totally false.

 

[artbosco]

What you're missing is that eventually the neck size only crowd, eventually will have to F/L size or their brass won't fit in the chamber. At that point they're overworking [moving a greater distance] a hardened brass body to get it back into specs.

Couple things about this aren't actually true.

For one, everyone will not eventually have to FL size. I NEVER do..
I don't have or use any FL sizing dies, and I haven't any issues with this.
In fact, it's possible to burn out a barrel with the reloading of a single case, without ever touching that case with a sizing die of any sort. Just repriming, charging, and seating, and it will never get any more consistent than this.
Is it likely you can do this? NO. But it could be taken to this.

Second, FL dies and chambers are not always matching to provide minimal sizing. Truly, while left to chance, it's unlikely.
Hence all the problems arising with FL sizing, as questioned on every shooting forum. IMO this might actually be the most 'consistent' attribute from the FL sizing 'crowd'.

Third, sizing demands and results are tied to more than dies and methods. There is cartridge design, chamber design, and loads directly affecting both influences.
To suggest that EVERYONE should be doing the same sizing is totally false.

I never suggested everyone should be doing the same thing, only the pros and cons of both methods.

Are you a hunter or competitive benchrest shooter?

If you're using a hunting rifle you can pretty much get away with a lot of things because some chambers will be huge [max SAAMI specs]. My brother's bullseye is an 8" diameter. With his many fine hunting rifles his goal is pretty much in the bag. He just points and then pulls the trigger.

Mine is a 1/16" dot at 100 and 1/8" dot at 200 when shooting Score. In Group, it's the diameter of my 6mm bullet hole at 100 and 200 yards. If accuracy is what one is looking for, and I believe most folks are, there are certain fundamentals that support that goal. The fundamental of F/L resizing is one of those.

If you're happy with your method, and aren't inclined to bring your cases back into their originally designed dimensions, ever, by all means, have at it. But don't expect too much. Accuracy will eventually reach a plateau.

 

[tenring]

Yes, many benchrest shooters do FL size every time. When I find the bolt closes with some effort, I know its time to run the FL die. I usually keep it set to bump the shoulders back about .002" - but to use that same die at that setting for neck only sizing (No shoulder bump), I use one of Skip Otto's shims under the die, about .005" or so thickness.

BTW, take a look at Lynwood Harrel's FL bushing sizer die at $70.

 

[bozo699]

A couple of guys told me that they can neck size only with a full length die. I cant see how this is possible. Am I right or am I missing something?

What you're missing is that eventually the neck size only crowd, eventually will have to F/L size or their brass won't fit in the chamber. At that point they're overworking [moving a greater distance] a hardened brass body to get it back into specs.

By F/L sizing each and every time you reload, the brass is less-worked because your moving the entire case in infinitesimal amounts and total dimensions will stay within specs and provide consistent results time after time.

Consistency is the name of the game. Consistency leads to accuracy.

I absolutely agree with outdoorsman on this, It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to neck size with a full length die. A standard neck sizing die doesn't touch the body or shoulder anywhere, just sizes the neck, partially or the full length of it depending on how you adjust it, a bushing neck die never totally sizes the whole neck and you can adjust it from about 3/32" off the shoulder clear to nothing if you want.

A f/l standard die if not set properly, properly meaning to size the full length of the case then your partially full length sizing causing problems towards the head of your case, it is designed to f/l size and needs to be used accordingly, it's like using a adjustable wrench backwards, it works sorta but eventually you will ruin the nut, it was designed to be used one way ONLY!

A f/l bushing die is another matter in itself you can f/l size the brass as it was designed to do and adjust the bushing to partially size the neck. I just don't understand why people use the wrong tools for the job intended when they make and sell the proper tools for the job everyday. I understand some people want to neck size only and others want to f/l size and there can be merits to both, but we need to use the right tools for the job IMHO.
Wayne.

 

[tackdriver1]

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[Down South]

You can do it. Like previously stated it will not resize the entire neck, but that is actually recommended. You should only size about 75-80% of the neck. You will be fine sizing with it.

But why not FL size and neck size at the same time everytime? Your bolt lugs will appreciate it!

+1 I used to just neck size, now i full length size and never looked back. Accuracy is just as good and always chambers easy as i bump the shoulder back .001 every time.

 

[BoydAllen]

First of all, this is one of those questions that can be answered by a little testing, measuring and shooting. I suggest that you do that, and come back and tell us what happened. As far as the practicality of various kinds of sizing goes, it all depends on the level of pressure you are loading to, your accuracy goals, and to a certain extent, the shape of the case you are working with. If the case has a lot of body taper, and a longish neck. you can size part of the neck with a FL die. If the case has a short neck, and little body taper, this will be a lot harder to do, especially given the dimensional differences between a factory chamber, and the typical off the shelf FL die. You have not told us much about your rifle. More information allows for better answers. As far as alternating neck and FL sizing goes, this will depend on your accuracy standards, and the pressure of your loads. Within a given set of cases, even if they are all fired the same number of times, with the same loads, some will get tight before others, and if cases that have differences in how hard the bolt closes are fired in the same group, it will be larger than if all the cases has the same bolt closing feel, either tight or loose. If the degree of enlargement is not significant for the type of shooting that you do, or your overall accuracy is not good enough to see the difference, then you can disregard this issue.

 

[bozo699]

Fella's
This thread is almost two years old the op has surly figured out that neck sizing is for 1950's .222 bench rest shooters and has ZERO merits for today's benchrest or hunting aplications! It makes no sense at all to neck size only,.....EVER!!! It is okay to neck size in conjunction with a body die but with all the custom die makers out there I see this as a waste of time. I want to see my body sized a certain amount, so much at the top and so much at the base and the shoulder pushed back a certain amount also. I do believe in partial neck sizing but not partial body sizing, consistency is the key to accuracy and that CAN'T be done by partially or another words half ass resizing with a f/l sizing die! Take a fired case and measure from the base to datum on the shoulder, write the measurement down, then set your f/l die up to size the neck half way,....now take that measurement again,........what do you see?....I'll tell you what you see,.......you see that the case has grown, you have created yourself more of a problem as now the bolt is stiff and hard to close and on a custom chamber probably won't close at all, as Boyd mentioned it depends on if your shooting hot loads or mild ones and the dimensions of your case but no more than dies costs it makes ZERO sense to me to use the wrong tool for the job! Even with a factory die if you set it up properly you can get many many many reloadings out of your brass if you set the die up properly, this does not mean to run it down to the shell holder then another quarter turn like the instructions say to do, this means use some measuring tools,....another necessity,....yes it does cost money to have a hobby,....and measure to have a .001 to a .002 shoulder bump,...lube your cases evenly and don't get any lube on the shoulder's keep your die clean of dirt and built up lube and it will do a fine job for you, I have my dies custom made for my chambers any more and the few factory chambers I have I use off the shelf dies as there so sloppy it doesn't matter much!
Wayne.