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N140 vs N150 308 F/TR

JFF

I am currently using Varget with Berger 185gr Juggernaut Targets in Lapua Palma SRP brass. I am curious if anyone has tried both N140 and N150 with this combination before? I am trying to make a decision on what powder to be switching over to, as obviously, Varget supply is quite limited.

After doing quite a bit of research there doesn't seem to be a clear answer. A lot of other threads talk about 155 gr projectiles, so I am curious about specific experience with the 185 gr Juggernaut, as that is all I shoot, and will be shooting for the life of this barrel.

Thanks in advance.
 
They both work. We have a lot of experience in the UK with these powders and 'traditionally', N140 was regarded as preferable for bullet weights up to 168 or 175gn, and N150 as the one to use above that. However, I've preferred N150 even for 155s in both LP and SP brass for many years even if it saw a slight MV loss, whilst others will use N140 for just about everything in 308.

In UK F/TR with SP Lapua 'Palma' brass, N150 is the standard powder for the 185gn Juggernaut and heavier. I have seen some evidence that SP ignition can struggle a bit with N140 in some circumstances, whereas it seems to work in all conditions with N150. Some people's ES values are superb with this brass / powder / heavier bullet combination.

The sling shooters here load 155gn bullets all of the time and 99% will use N140, albeit often in much heavier loads than Viht's data suggest is maximum.

Ignore powder burn rate charts. N150/550 are IMO ranked as noticeably slower burning than real-life applications and results suggest. (Same applies to N160 which is nearer to the 4350s than the 4831s.) QuickLOAD can also be well 'out' with these powders for the same reason.
 
Laurie said:
They both work. We have a lot of experience in the UK with these powders and 'traditionally', N140 was regarded as preferable for bullet weights up to 168 or 175gn, and N150 as the one to use above that. However, I've preferred N150 even for 155s in both LP and SP brass for many years even if it saw a slight MV loss, whilst others will use N140 for just about everything in 308.

In UK F/TR with SP Lapua 'Palma' brass, N150 is the standard powder for the 185gn Juggernaut and heavier. I have seen some evidence that SP ignition can struggle a bit with N140 in some circumstances, whereas it seems to work in all conditions with N150. Some people's ES values are superb with this brass / powder / heavier bullet combination.

The sling shooters here load 155gn bullets all of the time and 99% will use N140, albeit often in much heavier loads than Viht's data suggest is maximum.

Ignore powder burn rate charts. N150/550 are IMO ranked as noticeably slower burning than real-life applications and results suggest. (Same applies to N160 which is nearer to the 4350s than the 4831s.) QuickLOAD can also be well 'out' with these powders for the same reason.
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That is fantastic info. Thank you very much for all of the insight!
 
I wish you luck on finding a better powder than Varget for Juggernauts in the .308. Varget and H-4350 get hard to find but do come available. I don't like to wear out a good barrel trying to get something to shoot that's a substitute.
 
Billy 30-06 said:
I wish you luck on finding a better powder than Varget for Juggernauts in the .308. Varget and H-4350 get hard to find but do come available. I don't like to wear out a good barrel trying to get something to shoot that's a substitute.
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While I don't disagree, unfortunately living outside of the US makes it even tougher to find Varget. We suffer from the trickle-down of anything that is happening in the US. Just trying to have a backup plan when my stock does run out.
 
For .308 F-TR ; I had to go to IMR 4064 , after I ran out of A-4064 , after I ran out of H-4895 and Varget . And I'm in Arizona . All the matches got pushed back , and stacked out here as the powder crunch was hitting us out here , too . And I probably didn't have enough of any one powder to carry me through . The Viht. 150 & 140 should work , but the 150 doesn't seem to seal the neck well in some TR rifles . Maybe a over-sized neck area . So far ; I haven't worn out my good barrel using IMR 4064 . Rather have H-4895 for the 185's , but I'm squeekin out mid to high 90's - 9-13x . Usually good for third or fourth in this crowd out here .
 
JFF said:
While I don't disagree, unfortunately living outside of the US makes it even tougher to find Varget. We suffer from the trickle-down of anything that is happening in the US. Just trying to have a backup plan when my stock does run out.
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Can you get Quebec produced IMR-4166 over your way any more easily? Although a tad fast burning I've seen people use it successfully with a wide range of bullet weights in 308 F/TR up to 200gn.
 
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It's always worthwhile looking out for something new that hasn't caught on, or simply hasn't become fashionable. Back around 2012 (when still shooting the 155.5 Berger), we couldn't get H4895 or VarGet in the UK for love or money. I discovered a then new powder, IMR-8208 XBR, that nobody here knew anything about at all and nobody would buy at the time. I knew about it thanks to Accurate Shooter both the daily Bulletin and some threads on it and reckoned it might be stand-in for H4895 in 308. Bought a tin, tried it out, and went back and bought 10 or 12 tins, all same lot. 12 months later, the pack had caught up but by then it too was more or less unavailable here.

(Now we can't get any Hodgdon / IMR powder other than the five Endurons and some recent Hodgdon 'sphericals' - the CFEs and Li'l Gun. But that's the regulation overkill / protectionist EU to blame not shortages.)

Another US available possibility is Shooters World 'Precision' (Lovex SO62 from Czech manufacturer Explosia). This is a really good VarGet alternative. Straightforward single-based tubular, short-cut. Might or might not be as temperature stable as VarGet, but it's certainly OK in our less variable conditions. From other threads here, I get the impression that word on this one might be getting around now on your side of the Atlantic though.

(SW 'Long Rifle' / Lovex SO65 is a really useful 4350 alternative too in cartridges like 6.5 Creedmoor and 7mm-08. It's a bit faster burning than H4350, but slower than VarGet - falls right between this pair.)
 
Laurie said:
Can you get Quebec produced IMR-4166 over your way any more easily? Although a tad fast burning I've seen people use it successfully with a wide range of bullet weights in 308 F/TR up to 200gn.
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Like everything we make in Canada, it seems the first option is to export it rather than let it get used by Canadians. I will keep an eye out for it though. Thanks!
 
Laurie said:
It's always worthwhile looking out for something new that hasn't caught on, or simply hasn't become fashionable. Back around 2012 (when still shooting the 155.5 Berger), we couldn't get H4895 or VarGet in the UK for love or money. I discovered a then new powder, IMR-8208 XBR, that nobody here knew anything about at all and nobody would buy at the time. I knew about it thanks to Accurate Shooter both the daily Bulletin and some threads on it and reckoned it might be stand-in for H4895 in 308. Bought a tin, tried it out, and went back and bought 10 or 12 tins, all same lot. 12 months later, the pack had caught up but by then it too was more or less unavailable here.

(Now we can't get any Hodgdon / IMR powder other than the five Endurons and some recent Hodgdon 'sphericals' - the CFEs and Li'l Gun. But that's the regulation overkill / protectionist EU to blame not shortages.)

Another US available possibility is Shooters World 'Precision' (Lovex SO62 from Czech manufacturer Explosia). This is a really good VarGet alternative. Straightforward single-based tubular, short-cut. Might or might not be as temperature stable as VarGet, but it's certainly OK in our less variable conditions. From other threads here, I get the impression that word on this one might be getting around now on your side of the Atlantic though.

(SW 'Long Rifle' / Lovex SO65 is a really useful 4350 alternative too in cartridges like 6.5 Creedmoor and 7mm-08. It's a bit faster burning than H4350, but slower than VarGet - falls right between this pair.)
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I have actually been hearing really good things about the Shooters World powders. Unfortunately, they do not import into Canada. Word is they may try in the future, but quite honestly Canada is such a drop in the bucket compared to the US, it makes sense why a lot of companies have zero interest in going through the trouble to be able to import into Canada for such a tiny customer base.
 
I am also wondering about N150, Grabbed a pound as it was the first powder Ive seen on sale in a long while. There was other Vitavhouri powders at the store but the label said good for heavy 308 and I have a bunch of Nosler 175s. I am now thinking when they said heavy they meant 180+gr bullets. My rifle has a 20" barrel. That being said, velocity isnt as big of a concern for me as it is for many. I wont be shooting past 550m/600y anytime soon.
 
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I have a different suggestion for you. Can you get any Accurate 2520? It is working extremely well for me with 178 Hornady HPBTM, and with my heavier bullets in 223 F/TR where it is at least as accurate as Varget.
 
Woofie said:
I have a different suggestion for you. Can you get any Accurate 2520? It is working extremely well for me with 178 Hornady HPBTM, and with my heavier bullets in 223 F/TR where it is at least as accurate as Varget.
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That is a really good question. I've never seen it around, but that doesn't mean anything. I'll keep an eye out for it. I did end up buying some N150 to try out. So far it seems to be working well.
 
JFF said:
Just out of curiosity, what makes you put Varget as your number one over others?
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Its just been the most accurate in my testing... consistent and predictable over and over..
Dont get me wrong there are many combinations out there that will probly work as well, I just dont have to work at all with Varget for my applications.
 
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JFF said:
That is a really good question. I've never seen it around, but that doesn't mean anything. I'll keep an eye out for it. I did end up buying some N150 to try out. So far it seems to be working well.
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2520 is incredibly temperature sensitive. just an FYI
 
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