My Updated 223/5.56 H20 capacity chart

[LVLAaron]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HAk-Cd8YrD19k-jyGIGSvDsxNy-AY8zD/view?usp=sharing

In my chase for the perfect AR15 loads, I've been gathering some data about the brass. My goal was to find brass I can buy in bulk, fire once, and put it in a 5 gallon bucket for a rainy day and not worry about prep, fire count, etc.


My comments about some of the brands:

Wolf Gold - I have another thread talking about it. It's great and I have about 2000 to go through before I switch to anything else. At 14 cents shipped and primed, its probably worth more to recycle than than it is to process and reload.

LC - If there was a reliable and cheap source to buy unfired brass, I probably would, but haven't found a place to do so. I quit purchasing processed LC brass because the primer pockets always seem blown out.

Starline - They're new to rifle brass and I think it's excellent. They do make both 223 and 5.56 brass. They are the same but different properties of the metal. They say the 5.56 should hold up better / last longer. Haven't had the chance to run it through its paces yet. Beware the case capacity is far less than you'd expect. Don't just switch to it without load adjustment.

Jagemann - Grabbed 100 and fired 10 today just for the spreadsheet. Really impressed. Best example I've found of there NOT being a correlation of brass weight to H20 capacity.

 

[flyingbrass]

Thanks for posting this. Jagemann looks interesting. Have you tested neck thickness consistency? Are the flash holes all centered and consistent? I wouldn't mind buying some brass at $.25 each if it is substantially better than Wolf Gold, but it would need to be enough better to justify the cost.

I've been using Wolf Gold brass for some time in an AR-15. A case of 55 grain FMJ rounds is currently under $290 shipped and is more accurate than most of this type. Since my cheapest 55 grain reloads cost about $.19 each in other components, brass cost is around $.10 each. The $.14 you are paying for new primed cases comes out roughly the same (except I'd have to actually do the loading). Does the new primed brass have crimped primers? If not, that would be a plus.

The batch I've been reloading is all from a single lot (case) purchased a few years ago, so I don't have information about any lot to lot variations. My brass has held up very well, though I anneal. FYI, the loaded ammo has crimped primers, which must be dealt with. Crimps aren't super heavy, as in no broken decapping pins, but pockets need to be reamed or swaged. I've also started uniforming primer pockets after finding some of my reloads with primers barely flush or even a hair above. I don't know if some of the cases started with shallow pockets or earlier batches with some stout reloads caused this.

Recently I measured volume of 5 fired cases that have been reloaded (and trimmed) multiple times. They had been trimmed to 1.750" before the last firing. Capacity range was 30.6 to 31 grains of water, with an average of 30.8. This was with the water as even with the mouth as I could make it. Resized brass would probably be more consistent. I don't know how much variation is from differences in expansion/contraction when cycling through a semi-auto. I wanted an average fired case volume to use in Gordon's Reloading Tool. For measuring volume consistency I'm thinking resizing first would be best. It's probably also not fair to compare brass that has been fired multiple times with loads at different pressures. Some will have stretched and been trimmed more than others.

Velocites using Lapua and Wolf Gold brass with an identical load were practically the same. I'm assuming their volumes are similar. Winchester brass was noticeably thinner/softer than both and seemed to be of higher volume. I have not tried LC because the fired cases I acquired seemed to be of relatively poor quality. Some must have been fired in a machine gun.

You may have already seen this, but Johnny did some comparisons of .223 brass some time ago.

Capacities (resized brass capacities shown at 3:55):

Brass Tests:

Part 1:

Part 2:

 

[T-shooter]

Years ago I was working up loads for a 5.56. The maximum load was limited by case capacity. I was able to measure the charges to where a flat tipped bolt and the the bullet would sit on top of it without compressing, and leaving a little space around the boat tail. I doubt if 26g of Varget would fit especially setting the bullet .065" deeper. It would definitely be compressed.

 

[oley55]

LC - If there was a reliable and cheap source to buy unfired brass, I probably would, but haven't found a place to do so. I quit purchasing processed LC brass because the primer pockets always seem blown out. Beware the case capacity is far less than you'd expect. Don't just switch to it without load adjustment.

Per your data I do not see the "far less capacity" reflected in the H2O weights, or am I missing something?

 

[T-shooter]

I have bought a couple of these before. 500 pieces of new FC 223 brass already primed for $93.99. No haz-Mat charge.
https://www.xtremebullets.com/223-Rem-New-Brass-s/48403.htm
They are out of stock right now.

 

[jepp2]

In my chase for the perfect AR15 loads

Always interesting to see and benefit from others. Thanks for sharing.

I probably just missed it, but what other things are you working on?

My experience says the #1 factor in AR accuracy, is the barrel quality. My Krieger out shoots everything else.

While I adjust for major differences in WC, the volumes you measured are probably less significant than your powder dispersing accuracy (do you measure to 0.1 gr, or try for better accuracy?)

Try some Lapua match 223 brass, you will use all the rest for plinking.

 

[jepp2]

I quit purchasing processed LC brass because the primer pockets always seem blown out. Beware the case capacity is far less than you'd expect.

I had similar experience with military once fired, and it could be fired in a SAW. My approach was to buy XM193 and shoot it when the temperature was below 40°.

I'm missing your warning on case capacity? Looks the same as Wolf and Jagemann, and all are greater than Starline.

 

[LVLAaron]

Per your data I do not see the "far less capacity" reflected in the H2O weights, or am I missing something?

My fault. I will edit. I meant the capacity comment to be about Starline.

 

[LVLAaron]

Thanks for posting this. Jagemann looks interesting. Have you tested neck thickness consistency? Are the flash holes all centered and consistent? I wouldn't mind buying some brass at $.25 each if it is substantially better than Wolf Gold, but it would need to be enough better to justify the cost.

I've been using Wolf Gold brass for some time in an AR-15. A case of 55 grain FMJ rounds is currently under $290 shipped and is more accurate than most of this type. Since my cheapest 55 grain reloads cost about $.19 each in other components, brass cost is around $.10 each. The $.14 you are paying for new primed cases comes out roughly the same (except I'd have to actually do the loading). Does the new primed brass have crimped primers? If not, that would be a plus.

The batch I've been reloading is all from a single lot (case) purchased a few years ago, so I don't have information about any lot to lot variations. My brass has held up very well, though I anneal. FYI, the loaded ammo has crimped primers, which must be dealt with. Crimps aren't super heavy, as in no broken decapping pins, but pockets need to be reamed or swaged. I've also started uniforming primer pockets after finding some of my reloads with primers barely flush or even a hair above. I don't know if some of the cases started with shallow pockets or earlier batches with some stout reloads caused this.

Recently I measured volume of 5 fired cases that have been reloaded (and trimmed) multiple times. They had been trimmed to 1.750" before the last firing. Capacity range was 30.6 to 31 grains of water, with an average of 30.8. This was with the water as even with the mouth as I could make it. Resized brass would probably be more consistent. I don't know how much variation is from differences in expansion/contraction when cycling through a semi-auto. I wanted an average fired case volume to use in Gordon's Reloading Tool. For measuring volume consistency I'm thinking resizing first would be best. It's probably also not fair to compare brass that has been fired multiple times with loads at different pressures. Some will have stretched and been trimmed more than others.

Velocites using Lapua and Wolf Gold brass with an identical load were practically the same. I'm assuming their volumes are similar. Winchester brass was noticeably thinner/softer than both and seemed to be of higher volume. I have not tried LC because the fired cases I acquired seemed to be of relatively poor quality. Some must have been fired in a machine gun.

You may have already seen this, but Johnny did some comparisons of .223 brass some time ago.

Capacities (resized brass capacities shown at 3:55):

Brass Tests:

Part 1:

Part 2:

JRB is my man! I'm his biggest fan. He's even got some of my tools and a barrel.

The Jagemann brass looks excellent. The headstamp could be lapua/alpha/peterson and you wouldn't know the difference. The flash holes are clean. I can't tell if they are drilled or punched, it's not obvious.

For now I'm sticking to wolf gold because it's performing awesome. Might only get one firing out if it with my loads, but I don't care, it's cheap!

 

[LVLAaron]

Always interesting to see and benefit from others. Thanks for sharing.

I probably just missed it, but what other things are you working on?

My experience says the #1 factor in AR accuracy, is the barrel quality. My Krieger out shoots everything else.

While I adjust for major differences in WC, the volumes you measured are probably less significant than your powder dispersing accuracy (do you measure to 0.1 gr, or try for better accuracy?)

Try some Lapua match 223 brass, you will use all the rest for plinking.

As far as Lapua goes.... I've done similar testing with .308 cases. Alpha, Peterson, Starline, and Lapua. Lapua is good, but it's not as great as everyone says it is. But for these tests and type of loads I'm firing, I dont want to use 80 cent cases. They're more or less disposable in this use case.

But Krieger... I'm a forever fan. Here are two test groups I fired on my Krieger 1:7.7 twist barrel out of an AR15. Barrel wasn't even broken in yet.

https://imgur.com/a/0Rdd6nd

 

[LVLAaron]

For the curious....

With the Provisional F-Class "Tactical AR" class I wanted to build a "fun gun" to use at practice and have in the truck in case my primary rifle breaks on the line.

I'm firing 80 grain SMK's 5 thou off the lands of a White Oak Precision Krieger service rifle barrel. I'm using 24 grains of AR-Comp (This stuff is WAY under rated... incredibly temp stable... cheap, and available) - Velocity is 2900 FPS. Nuts. Shoots like a benchrest gun.

 

[CharlieNC]

Last spring somebody had new LC in bulk on sale, usually posted here when it occurs. I think it was Midsouth. Dimensionally as consistent as Lapua and higher capacity, shoots the same for me.

 

[Cfshooter]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HAk-Cd8YrD19k-jyGIGSvDsxNy-AY8zD/view?usp=sharing

In my chase for the perfect AR15 loads, I've been gathering some data about the brass. My goal was to find brass I can buy in bulk, fire once, and put it in a 5 gallon bucket for a rainy day and not worry about prep, fire count, etc.


My comments about some of the brands:

Wolf Gold - I have another thread talking about it. It's great and I have about 2000 to go through before I switch to anything else. At 14 cents shipped and primed, its probably worth more to recycle than than it is to process and reload.

LC - If there was a reliable and cheap source to buy unfired brass, I probably would, but haven't found a place to do so. I quit purchasing processed LC brass because the primer pockets always seem blown out.

Starline - They're new to rifle brass and I think it's excellent. They do make both 223 and 5.56 brass. They are the same but different properties of the metal. They say the 5.56 should hold up better / last longer. Haven't had the chance to run it through its paces yet. Beware the case capacity is far less than you'd expect. Don't just switch to it without load adjustment.

Jagemann - Grabbed 100 and fired 10 today just for the spreadsheet. Really impressed. Best example I've found of there NOT being a correlation of brass weight to H20 capacity.

thanks for sharing this!