Muzzle Brake testing with my new Beast brake
- Thread starter IdahoCTD
- Start date
Please test with something abusive like 338L cuz I heard of a guy broke his collarbone because the brake broke. And I've broke some brakes, thankfully all in my sled.
And I don't know NUTTIN' about titanium under repeated shock. Love to hear
I have been shooting my .338 Ulfberht for about a year with your 4-port Beast brake, 91gr. RL-33, 300gr. SMK. Shooting from the bench with bipod the rifle hops only an inch or two sideways. The Beast turns it into a real pussycat; quite a pleasant plinker. Thanks for a good product!
Personally I don't care about calculated numbers from a sled with springs. Jerry and I have gone back and forth about it but the bottom line is if my brake is better than his on the same day on the same set up that is all that matters. He can claim all the numbers he wants but I know how his brake is made and I would just about bet mine are more effective. When I get a chance to buy one, I will and prove it one way or the other. His brakes are huge in comparison (1.5" wide) so they might still work pretty well. To a degree surface area can over come poor design.
I have a 338 Lapua and a 300wm that I use just for testing. I also built a 450 Bushmaster to test with. I might build a 6.5 Creedmoor too but to be honest the real testing happens with the big stuff IMO. It's not hard to tame a 6.5 Creedmoor or 308. I'm going to make the programming for about a half dozen different designs in the next month or so to test which is the most effective and if any are better than my current design. It sure is nice having the machines and programming in house to tweak designs at will. That part was a struggle a few years ago. I just need another machine to free up my 4th axis to do the stuff it's designed to do.
Titanium is a fickle material. HSS or Cobalt drills don't last long with it. I'll see how the special end mills I ordered do today. If the testing goes well I'll order a bunch of carbide drill bits and a bunch more material. I'm expecting the .920" 4 ports to weigh about 2oz. They weigh 3.5oz as a blank but a lot of material gets removed for the ports.
I'm glad you like your brake shortthroat.
I have a 338 Lapua and a 300wm that I use just for testing. I also built a 450 Bushmaster to test with. I might build a 6.5 Creedmoor too but to be honest the real testing happens with the big stuff IMO. It's not hard to tame a 6.5 Creedmoor or 308. I'm going to make the programming for about a half dozen different designs in the next month or so to test which is the most effective and if any are better than my current design. It sure is nice having the machines and programming in house to tweak designs at will. That part was a struggle a few years ago. I just need another machine to free up my 4th axis to do the stuff it's designed to do.
Titanium is a fickle material. HSS or Cobalt drills don't last long with it. I'll see how the special end mills I ordered do today. If the testing goes well I'll order a bunch of carbide drill bits and a bunch more material. I'm expecting the .920" 4 ports to weigh about 2oz. They weigh 3.5oz as a blank but a lot of material gets removed for the ports.
I'm glad you like your brake shortthroat.
I designed the machine for Jerry to measure recoil. Springs are a very effective way to get consistent results. Look up potential energy of springs and you can find the formulas to do so. Imagine .. springs in your trigger or any other sprung device, consistent. Anyway, with the sprung sled where the spring rate has been measured, knowing the weight of the sled and the rilfe I can tell you how much recoil the rifle has, nothing more to it than that. From that number I can give you a true reduction in recoil or effectiveness of the brake. no bias.
It's true .. you have some good brakes and until we can test one side by side on the same device then it doesn't matter much. We do test other brakes in the videos but don't call them out by name. Guess we just trying to be nice about it.
The RUM in the picture has a 5 port "Jerry" brake turned down to 1", so that "poor design" remark may be a little off.
The radials we have tested, even turned down to .800" turn out to be slightly better in recoil reduction, 98% effective (97% on sideport), mostly because of the intersecting holes give greater surface area than the flat ports on the side port. How do I know how effective it is? Springs .. The sliding measurements on friction is nothing more than that, you cannot produce any other result other than one moved farther than the other. The movement is not relative to anything.
Oh, forgot to mention tuning of the brake. Yes, our brakes are cartridge specific to get the most out the brake, it does make a difference, additional 10-15% effectiveness. Saying it is 10% better in recoil reduction is irrelevant because the entire recoil depends on weight of rifle, bullet weight, powder charge.. etc .. effectiveness though, measured with springs, can be counted on.
I know quite well about brake tuning. I've done it too. I don't sell catridge specific brakes because it would be a pain to stock them all. There are way too many different configurations between barrel sizes, threads, and calibers. I already sell a ton more brake versions then 99% of the people out there. If I only sold one brake it would be much easier but a Creedmoor guy doesn't need a 5 port when they only shoot 40 some grains of powder and he might want a brake he can turn to be flush with his sporter/varmint/Proof barrel. Also not everyone wants a slab style brake. I make slab brakes and sell very few.
Does a person need to know more than one brake reduces more recoil then the other with all else being equal? Unless they are buying for looks or a specific function most people want to reduce the most recoil. Because Jerry/you are trying to lesson the muzzle blast to the shooter you will always give up performance. Some people want that specific function from a brake and others dont care. My goal was to reduce the most recoil. I'm sure I can accomplish both but it will take some creative machine work to make it happen and it will be impossible to keep the size down as small as mine are now. The cost might be too high as well. Slab brakes do reduce a bit more recoil but it is super minimal after about 1" OD on a aggressive brake. The gases that will hit the outer edges of the baffles do extremely minimal work.
My testing method is just as reliable. I can get the same results time after time. I've done it a lot. About 85% of my big brakes go on .338 Lapua's/Edge's or 300 Win mags. That is why I do most of my testing with them. Comparing one brake to another on those calibers is what most of those people want to know when they are shopping for a brake. I name names so people can see what they are getting when they buy my brake and how it compares to others. There are way to many people that make products that claim they are the latest and greatest/designed by an engineer/ etc and they perform like poo. Unlike many other of top recoil reducing brakes mine reduce muzzle rise as well without using top holes/ports.
If you want to send me one of your "non tuned" brakes turned to 1" I will send you one of my 1.01" 5 port Beast brakes and we can both test them and post the results. Send me a PM with yours or Jerry's address and I will ship one off in 338 to be tested on a .300wm and 338 Lapua. I have tons of other calibers I can use too but the vast majority of people shopping for a big brake have those or similar calibers. I've got nothing to hide. If your not game I'll buy one when I get done with my titanium brakes and post the result one way or another. I made the same offer to Jerry and he wasn't interested.
Does a person need to know more than one brake reduces more recoil then the other with all else being equal? Unless they are buying for looks or a specific function most people want to reduce the most recoil. Because Jerry/you are trying to lesson the muzzle blast to the shooter you will always give up performance. Some people want that specific function from a brake and others dont care. My goal was to reduce the most recoil. I'm sure I can accomplish both but it will take some creative machine work to make it happen and it will be impossible to keep the size down as small as mine are now. The cost might be too high as well. Slab brakes do reduce a bit more recoil but it is super minimal after about 1" OD on a aggressive brake. The gases that will hit the outer edges of the baffles do extremely minimal work.
My testing method is just as reliable. I can get the same results time after time. I've done it a lot. About 85% of my big brakes go on .338 Lapua's/Edge's or 300 Win mags. That is why I do most of my testing with them. Comparing one brake to another on those calibers is what most of those people want to know when they are shopping for a brake. I name names so people can see what they are getting when they buy my brake and how it compares to others. There are way to many people that make products that claim they are the latest and greatest/designed by an engineer/ etc and they perform like poo. Unlike many other of top recoil reducing brakes mine reduce muzzle rise as well without using top holes/ports.
If you want to send me one of your "non tuned" brakes turned to 1" I will send you one of my 1.01" 5 port Beast brakes and we can both test them and post the results. Send me a PM with yours or Jerry's address and I will ship one off in 338 to be tested on a .300wm and 338 Lapua. I have tons of other calibers I can use too but the vast majority of people shopping for a big brake have those or similar calibers. I've got nothing to hide. If your not game I'll buy one when I get done with my titanium brakes and post the result one way or another. I made the same offer to Jerry and he wasn't interested.
Man .. stepped into the wrong door again .. My post was not to incite a riot with you about brakes. Just recoil measurement.
Bashing our brake again .. As i understand it you haven't even tried or seen one? I'm not saying anything bad about the Beast, it was not my intention when I responded in this thread. My hope would be that you would want to refine your measurement device to give numbers that correspond with the real world. As for cost .. the design of the slab and radial brakes that we designed do cost more to build. No matter to us .. We do this for fun and the customers we cater to are mostly people building customer rifles (by us or others) and don't want an off the shelf brake.
Yes .. your method is somewhat reliable. I did notice in one or more videos that the carriage slid back down.. guess it wasn't level in that case. Even though you get repeatable numbers at one given time, they don't mean anything except one was better, how much? cannot determine. The movement from inertia is not linear so any numbers you throw out there about effectiveness are guesses at best. I would love to help you make your testing environment better and conclusive. Last time I check saami website recoil is still measure in LB/FT, not in inches traveled on a undetermined surface or sliding of frisbees across the lawn. The device I out together is repeatable, measurable and accurate. I can take any rifle with given load and place it on the machine and tell you how far it will move to register the calculated recoil as saami and others have define.
I talk to Jerry often.. called him last night .. man, ya'll need to kiss and make up or something. Jerry sent 2 brakes to someone (not you), one tuned, one not. and the end result is the person actually made brakes and tried to reverse engineer the design. They were unsuccessful and the funny thing .. never saw our brake in any of his tests. At any rate, I don't mind doing side by side tests. No matter to me which brake is better, other than if we don't come out on top then I would strive to be better. In any case I won't be calling your brake poorly designed as you have done ours (without even trying it). I will state the facts, show the results and maybe end with a poor joke. I don't mind coming in 2nd as long as there is no bias
Test case would be the 300 RUM for me, PL3 factory ammo. Slab cut to 1", radial at 1" and whichever brake you would like to test, I'm buying though. Can't guarantee a time for the video.. busy time of year getting ready to go race at Bonneville .. Maybe you should come to Speed Week in august.
PM on it's way
Bashing our brake again .. As i understand it you haven't even tried or seen one? I'm not saying anything bad about the Beast, it was not my intention when I responded in this thread. My hope would be that you would want to refine your measurement device to give numbers that correspond with the real world. As for cost .. the design of the slab and radial brakes that we designed do cost more to build. No matter to us .. We do this for fun and the customers we cater to are mostly people building customer rifles (by us or others) and don't want an off the shelf brake.
Yes .. your method is somewhat reliable. I did notice in one or more videos that the carriage slid back down.. guess it wasn't level in that case. Even though you get repeatable numbers at one given time, they don't mean anything except one was better, how much? cannot determine. The movement from inertia is not linear so any numbers you throw out there about effectiveness are guesses at best. I would love to help you make your testing environment better and conclusive. Last time I check saami website recoil is still measure in LB/FT, not in inches traveled on a undetermined surface or sliding of frisbees across the lawn. The device I out together is repeatable, measurable and accurate. I can take any rifle with given load and place it on the machine and tell you how far it will move to register the calculated recoil as saami and others have define.
I talk to Jerry often.. called him last night .. man, ya'll need to kiss and make up or something. Jerry sent 2 brakes to someone (not you), one tuned, one not. and the end result is the person actually made brakes and tried to reverse engineer the design. They were unsuccessful and the funny thing .. never saw our brake in any of his tests. At any rate, I don't mind doing side by side tests. No matter to me which brake is better, other than if we don't come out on top then I would strive to be better. In any case I won't be calling your brake poorly designed as you have done ours (without even trying it). I will state the facts, show the results and maybe end with a poor joke. I don't mind coming in 2nd as long as there is no bias
Test case would be the 300 RUM for me, PL3 factory ammo. Slab cut to 1", radial at 1" and whichever brake you would like to test, I'm buying though. Can't guarantee a time for the video.. busy time of year getting ready to go race at Bonneville .. Maybe you should come to Speed Week in august.
PM on it's way
skunkhunter
Gold $$ Contributor
I know this is an old thread, but I purchased 3 brakes from IdahoCTD and they are all three amazing on recoil reduction. Using on 30 Sherman Magnum, 300 PRC and 300 Win Mag. Just wanted to give him a positive shout out and a positive +3
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