I have been working on a cartridge and have gone about as far as I can. I feel what I have is very significant. But I'm stuck and need help. Who is the most knowledgeable 6mm shooter and loader, knows everything about 6mm ballistics in the U.S. ?
Most Knowledgeable 6mm
- Thread starter deadduck357
- Start date
This cartridge is not a benchrest nor hunting cartridge. I contacted Superior Shooting Systems and talked to some guy named Tyler. Would any of you know if this guy or SSS knows their shyt ?
Im not "the" most knowledgebal one
but the best come to me for advice...ahahahah...
You havent told us much...what do you mean you are "as far as you can go", and it is significant...and how do you get stuk!???.....are you having case problems...too much pressure.....what is your round count...tell us something...you can hear good and bad about just about everyone and every thing out there...Roger
but the best come to me for advice...ahahahah...
You havent told us much...what do you mean you are "as far as you can go", and it is significant...and how do you get stuk!???.....are you having case problems...too much pressure.....what is your round count...tell us something...you can hear good and bad about just about everyone and every thing out there...Roger
Well, right now I don't want to let to much out. I have designed it and have a couple prototypes but now I'm trying to find someone that can help me in the development. I have it fitting in an AR15/M16 magazine. I have my velocity figures, though just in theory and estimates. Brass is needed, there is no known brass to work off of. I have the neck length where I think it is good but need someone with more knowledge to verify, may be altered + - 1mm or less. I need someone I can talk to and get them my info and a prototype to see if its worth the effort. I need someone with the pull to go to a brass manufacturer and get brass made, I'm just a redneck with to many guns.
I need someone that knows 6mm/243 ballistics like no other.
I need someone that knows 6mm/243 ballistics like no other.
CJ6
Silver $$ Contributor
I betting PULL with a brass manufacturer is to the TUNE of a 100,000 piece order 
. Butch Lambert ( I think :-[) makes case forming dies reasonable ;D. If there is no KNOWN case size to use ,well there's alot of cases/sizes out there. Check out Teppo Jetsu or SSK ind. on their AR based Cals. Good Luck........ Roger T
. Butch Lambert ( I think :-[) makes case forming dies reasonable ;D. If there is no KNOWN case size to use ,well there's alot of cases/sizes out there. Check out Teppo Jetsu or SSK ind. on their AR based Cals. Good Luck........ Roger Trcw3
Site $$ Sponsor
deadduck357 said:
If it's a 6mm for an AR-15 you should call me as 6mm's out of AR-15's has been a specialty for us for years, and we have developed a number of AR-15 wildcats (i.e. the 6mmAR, the 6mmAR Turbo and the 6mmAR Turbo 40 Imp. to name a few).
You are going to have a hard time to find someone to invest a lot of money to try to get brass made and take a risk on an untried and unproven cartridge if you don't even have a shooting and working prototype rifle with some brass to test.
Robert Whitley
www.6mmAR.com
If it is to feed of the AR-15 platform, I imagine it is a .223 bolt face configuration. Assuming this, you are limited to cartridges with this case head configuration. Here's what you do, get someone to draw up a detailed blueprint of the cartidge, then send it to Dave Manson in Grand Blanc, MI. He will cut a reamer to your exact specs. Get a quality 6mm blanc and have it chambered with said reamer, also get a die blanc, can't remember who sell them but they are out there, and have it cut too with said reamer. Bump the necks, on what ever cartridge you choose, to 6mm then fireform it COW. Load em, and go shoot. I know of a fellow that did a very similar thing! Will cost some money but, to the best of my knowledge, this is the only way to do it. Good Luck!
Mike
Mike
Your question doesn't really have a single answer.
Taken point by point, Brian Litz is probably the current most expert candidate for ballistic information for just about any caliber, 6mm included. You have a copy of his book on bullet ballistics? Makes for good reading....
As for most knowledgeable shooter / loader? There are so many top-notch shooters (in a variety of shooting disciplines) who use 6mm I trust none would stand out if the crowd were made up exclusively from that select group. RCW3 is one though among perhaps 20 - 30 others.
How have you arrived at your prototype if there's no known parent case to work from? All the current 6mm variants were developed off some other cartridge case: 6PPC off the .220 Russian, 6HAGAR off the .30Remington, 6mmAR off the 6.5 Grendel (itself developed off the 7.62x39 / .220 Russian also), 243WIN off the .308 (I believe?), 6XC from the 22-250... the list goes on.
As for production brass... a sore subject. There are few folks with pockets deep enough to finance speculative runs, fewer outfits willing to take on the project.
The fellow who developed the 6HAGAR tried for two or three years to get a run of "factory brass" made to his specs & ultimately gave up. One notable exception is 6.5 Grendel brass, available since about 2005. Made by Lapua, under contract for Alexander Arms, it's wonderful stuff. David Tubb's first two or three batches of 6XC brass (made by Silver States Armory I believe) weren't quite up to early adopters expectations as to quality. That's changed with the recent availability of brass from Norma, which has all but replaced the custom stuff David had been offering.
You may be on to something you think has potential, but you're following in the footsteps of many, many years of 6mm cartridge development by some of the finest shooters in the 20th & 21st centuries.
Taken point by point, Brian Litz is probably the current most expert candidate for ballistic information for just about any caliber, 6mm included. You have a copy of his book on bullet ballistics? Makes for good reading....
As for most knowledgeable shooter / loader? There are so many top-notch shooters (in a variety of shooting disciplines) who use 6mm I trust none would stand out if the crowd were made up exclusively from that select group. RCW3 is one though among perhaps 20 - 30 others.
How have you arrived at your prototype if there's no known parent case to work from? All the current 6mm variants were developed off some other cartridge case: 6PPC off the .220 Russian, 6HAGAR off the .30Remington, 6mmAR off the 6.5 Grendel (itself developed off the 7.62x39 / .220 Russian also), 243WIN off the .308 (I believe?), 6XC from the 22-250... the list goes on.
As for production brass... a sore subject. There are few folks with pockets deep enough to finance speculative runs, fewer outfits willing to take on the project.
The fellow who developed the 6HAGAR tried for two or three years to get a run of "factory brass" made to his specs & ultimately gave up. One notable exception is 6.5 Grendel brass, available since about 2005. Made by Lapua, under contract for Alexander Arms, it's wonderful stuff. David Tubb's first two or three batches of 6XC brass (made by Silver States Armory I believe) weren't quite up to early adopters expectations as to quality. That's changed with the recent availability of brass from Norma, which has all but replaced the custom stuff David had been offering.
You may be on to something you think has potential, but you're following in the footsteps of many, many years of 6mm cartridge development by some of the finest shooters in the 20th & 21st centuries.
rcw3 said:
Mr. Whitney,
I have looked into and read up on your 6mmAR family of cartridges and they are very intriguing. Parent case is 6.5 Grendel which has a much larger diameter than my case though, with less magazine capacity. So I cannot work off 6.5 Grendel brass. I like your cartridge better than the 6.5 Grendel. Im not trying to compete with either the 6.5 Grendel or 6.8SPC or 6mmAR. I have tried to come up with a cartridge to best the 5.56x45 and 5.8x42. It has a higher magazine capacity than both the 6.5 Grendel and 6.8SPC.
CanusLatransSnpr said:
My cartridge is also not based off the .223 .
spclark said:
You may be right, but I feel that I ought to give it a try. I don't see our military adopting either the 6.8SPC or the 6.5 Grendel for many reasons. By my figures and estimates my cartridge excels were they are weak. Has a larger caliber and more energy than the 5.56. I'm just tired of reading about our boys over in the sand having to hit enemy insurgents multiple times before they drop. Now the Brits are starting to complain about the effectiveness of the 5.56 . They deserve better. I have searched and searched and have not found were someone has developed my cartridge before. I have talked with my uncle about my cartridge, he was with the AMU back during Nam with many awards, and he informed me it has potential.
I have contacted Superior Shooting Systems Inc. and have talked with Tyler. I will be sending them a prototype so he and David Tubb can do some figures. I need figures on two loads, a CR load with a 75gr and MR load 87gr. I hope they can help.
AM I going the right or wrong route with them ?
RCW3, would you be able to talk some brass manufacturer into producing brass if my cartridge had potential ?
Forum Boss
Administrator
Les Baer has recently introduced a new 6mmx45 cartridge. By "new" I simply mean Les is trying to standardize a cartridge which has been a wildcat for decades. The parent case is the .223 Rem.
We'll have more details after SHOT Show. One problem with any cartridge that tries to shove long bullets in the .223 parent brass is that you run out of length for mag feeding. This means the bullet have to be seated deep into the case, reducing effective powder capacity.
I think that R. Whitley's 6mm AR Turbo may be the "ultimate" right now in 6mm cartridges suitable for the AR15 platform.
We'll have more details after SHOT Show. One problem with any cartridge that tries to shove long bullets in the .223 parent brass is that you run out of length for mag feeding. This means the bullet have to be seated deep into the case, reducing effective powder capacity.
I think that R. Whitley's 6mm AR Turbo may be the "ultimate" right now in 6mm cartridges suitable for the AR15 platform.
The 70gr MK Sierra or 75gr V-Max Hornady does not impede case capacity and only the boattail on the 87gr HPBT Hornady enters beyond the neck on my cartridge. I have a prototype loaded with a Sierra 85gr HPBT at 2.245" COAL and a Sierra 90gr FMJBT at 2.250" COAL with only some of the BT beyond the neck.
deadduck357 said:
That's a step in the right direction though if you're cartridge is destined for AR use you might also benefit from contacting John Holliger at White Oak Precision here in Illinois. He's well experienced in service rifle-smithing and development of wildcat variants for the AR match rifle platform.
For custom brass I'd go directly to a source: try Silver States Armory jeff@ssarmory.com, perhaps http://www.Hornady.com, or this outfit for short-run prototyping: http://www.rockymountaincartridge.com/ though their standard products aren't for modern high-pressure applications.
SPclark, thanks for the info. I have sent out my info and a prototype today to SSS inc. What I'm trying to accomplish with SSS is what kind of ballistics could be obtained with my cartridge. Then from there I guess the next step would be brass and firearm.
going to try to post a pdf in a new topic
This forum only allows 150kb which is very small, so it will not let me attach, oh well.
I have started a new thread titled 6.2mm OCC, let me know what ya'll think
I have started a new thread titled 6.2mm OCC, let me know what ya'll think
highmaster82
competitive highpower for 45 years
deadduck, i have been following this discussion,just how much improvement do you think your 6.2? would have over an every day 6x45 ,now roger's 6ar 1s a real step up but with the case size you are working on it's very doubtful ,by the way you are asking for a6mm expert what do you think rcw3 is ??? bw davis
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.