More precise powder measuring, on the cheap.

[Bat Rastard]

I want to reduce my variances on my powder charges.
I know the cool kids are gravitating to the integrated autotrickler 3. That certainly looks to be a magnificent system, but I currently have more time than money.

I see several well reviewed scales on Amazon that measure down to .001gram and cost $100-150.

Hornady has a $35 vibratory trickler that appears to let you get down to a grain at time.

If I couple those with my existing powder thrower to throw a light charge, I think I will be able to get +/-.02 grain.

Has anyone gone down this road ? Am I chasing my tail ?

 

[Walt Krafft]

yup, been there, done that. Spent twice what an autotrickler costs. Save your money and buy the best. Once.

 

[dgeesaman]

I want to reduce my variances on my powder charges.
I know the cool kids are gravitating to the integrated autotrickler 3. That certainly looks to be a magnificent system, but I currently have more time than money.

I see several well reviewed scales on Amazon that measure down to .001gram and cost $100-150.

Hornady has a $35 vibratory trickler that appears to let you get down to a grain at time.

If I couple those with my existing powder thrower to throw a light charge, I think I will be able to get +/-.02 grain.

Has anyone gone down this road ? Am I chasing my tail ?

There are multiple ways to get the charge in the pan but you always need a repeatable accurate scale. I know guys who reach single digit SDs with a good beam scale and a plastic spoon.

Powder thrower, dipper, manual trickler, plastic spoon, Autotrickler, etc can all work. I have the Autotrickler and it works quite well but I wouldn’t say it’s absolutely the best solution for faster and more accurate charges. Money spent well but not for everyone and maybe overkill for me. It does both but at a cost.

 

[CharlieNC]

Look on eBay for a good used beam balance made in USA.

 

[M-61]

I see several well reviewed scales on Amazon that measure down to .001gram and cost $100-150.

GRAMS?
GRAINS I think is what you mean

 

[boltman13]

The new RCBS two tube system looks like it might work to lower variances and not take too much time per individual charge. I used a RCBS 505 balance beam scale with a magnafing glass on the pointer, a Little Dandy trickler and a Lyman Gen II dispenser throwing a lite charge. It was slow but got me decent ammunition for F-Class. I added a GemPro 250 for tighter weighting to +/- 0.02 grains but the times increased a lot. It did reduce SD and ES on my loads and gave me more confidence in my loads. The problem with the GemPro and other inexpensive strain gauge scales is EMI, drift, and the resulting need to retare the scale. You start to loose faith in your loads. If you have the time and patience you might try that approach and same your money to get a Autotrickler3 and force restoration scale. You will love it.

 

[jepp2]

GRAMS?
GRAINS I think is what you mean

not if he means to the 3'rd place 0.001

 

[argh]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with what you are suggesting, and its how many people used to, and still do reload. Not everyone has the $$$$ to spend on automatic powder dispensing and trickling systems that have become the "have to have" fad of reloading tools.
For what its worth, 5-10 years ago 'the' electronic powder scale that people were talking about was the GemPro. Then the Sartorious and a few other very high end scales. Tuned 10-10 scales are still sought after and used with a camera on the beam are very accurate,

I use the current GemPro 300, and would love to upgrade, but dont have the $$. I have to watch that it doent wander (but its pretty good really).
But then i look at my results. I throw charges from a lee thrower, trickle up by granules of powder, and get very accurate long range loads. It doesnt take much time, and side by side with friends who use Chargemasters, i am quicker to load a tray of 50. My SDs are typically around 6fps and ES of 20. And i feel like i reload this, not just press a button.
Dont be fooled by the "you have to have to shoot good" crowd, because you dont. There are other ways to load than pressing the button on a $1,500 machine.
In saying that, electronic scales capable of 0.001g (or 0.02 grain) at the lower end of the price range often suffer from drift. Counteract this by zeroing off your empty pan every 5 charges.
YMMV
Happy reloading
Adrian

 

[RegionRat]

To “see” a level like 0.02 grains, a scale has to “see” 1.3 mg which is the same as 0.0013 grams. This is a tall order for a strain gage type, and still challenging for a force restoration type.

I used quotes around the word “see” because the real value to chase with a balance or an electronic scale is the uncertainty, but you rarely hear the term let alone see them test and publish that value. Just because a scale or balance has graduations, doesn’t mean it can actually perform at the levels of the markings or digits it reports.

Beam balance scales can get below 0.1 grains when properly set up. This means you can trickle up. Be careful with some of the electronic choices in the market because their zero drift circuits will prevent you from being able to trickle.

I will add one more tidbit. Yes, we used tuned beam balance scales and tricklers with closed loops to help amplify the beam balance, and even cameras before that. The main difference between all those tricks and the AutoTrickler, is the level of focus and attention we had to put into loading sessions.

The manual trickle methods require lots of operator focus. Fatigue plays a role when you try to load for a multi day match. Running a beam balance with closed-loop trickler was one way to reduce that fatigue factor. Without a doubt, the AutoTrickler is very easy on the operator when you are faced with a whole table covered with cases waiting to be charged.

 

[dgeesaman]

GRAMS?
GRAINS I think is what you mean

No it’s correct. A milligram (.001 gram) scale will get you within .02 grains.

The question with these cheap scales is whether they can achieve these specs in daily use.

 

[wkdickinson]

Ultimately it all comes down to the accuracy of the scale, then what you are buying is speed and convenience. For years I thought I could "throw" reasonably accurate charges, checking them with my RCBS 505. Then my wife bought me a GemPro 500 for Christmas. I quickly learned I couldn't. Now I use an RCBS Chargemaster 1500 and while it is a good machine, semi-fast and reasonably consistent (at least as proofed by my GemPro, which reads to .05 gr, which I also don't a lot of confidence in). But the scale only reads to .1 gr. I have tried to figure out how their "rounding" algorithm works, and after multiple weight studies of 100's of charges, I can't (it seems pretty random to me).

So IMO if you are serious about truly accurate powder measurement, you need one of the laboratory quality scales such as a Sarorious or A&D. After that you are buying speed and convenience. I, like many I'm sure, have a real mental struggle justifying spending that much money, even though I know it is ultimately where I want to go.

 

[Richard Coody]

Totally depends on what you are trying to accomplish. I use everything from my harrels powder measure to Adam's autotrickler.

For many of my ar's and hunting rifles I can find a wide enough powder charge that with the right powder I can throw perfectly acceptable charges with the harrels. Fast and easy once you get the rhythm down.

With my portable reloading system I use a gempro 250 lee scoops and a little dandy trickler just to verify charges with the harrel. Used this system for years before Adam's system came along.

Tried a chargemaster for a while but didn't see any improvement in speed or accuracy over the one above.

Now Adam's autotrickler is head and shoulders over anything out there. Question is do you really need single kernel accuracy. I use it for long range and some benchrest. I have come full circle. at one time I had $10,000 worth of reloading equipment. Now i am trying to go back to a simpler time. Learned a lot In the journey. What works for me and what wasn't worth the effort. My advice is put the money in the rifle. A really good rifle will shoot mediocre reloads better than a mediocre rifle will shoot the best of reloads.

 

[PopCharlie]

I just bought a new scale to replace a 15 year old scale that was drifting badly. I purchased a Frankford Arsenal platinum series scale and manual trickler from FA as well. Total expenditure was less than $120. The scale works great with the trickler. The trickler can dispense one kernal of powder at a time. Just a few kernals will register on the scale, depending on fhe powder. Works great for me. Its much faster than my old setup also.
PopCharlie

 

[Bat Rastard]

Thank you all for your inciteful replies.

I have realized if I try to piece together a cheap solution I will likely always wish I had gone the other way. Buy once cry once. The heart and soul of the auto trickler system is that a&d scale. The better the scale is on whatever I do, the better off I will be.
Therefore, I think I will save a bit longer, and get the a&d scale. Later I can add the integrated goodies as desired.
Thanks all.

 

[Willie]

Good decision to go to A&D. I use 2 ChargeMasters with identical wt powder cups. One is always ready for the fx-220i scale. I set the CM's for .1 gr.
under my target weight and top each charge off to .02 gr
accuracy with a Dandy trickler.

Nothing against the Adams Trickler set-up, but the Dandy is better at handling different powders one grain at a time and is easy to set up.

 

[Twoboxer]

The heart of the Autotrickler system is the scale. It has a quick and accurate response to any small added weight (ie kernel), and virtual immunity to RF noise (ie no flutter, loss of zero, etc). Most lower priced DIGITAL scales than the A&D FX120i do not do these things for most reloaders.

The AutoThrower and AutoTrickler are luxury addons that can be replaced in the very manner you describe.

You can get close with lower priced digital scales IF you have a noise-free environment and learn your particular scale's foibles. EG, some will not respond to a single kernel drop because they are programmed to ignore small changes in weight so as to "not flutter". That can be worked around by tapping the pan after adding a kernel to force a complete re-weighing. The old Gempro 250 (~$130) was such a scale.

Or it can be worked around by using a beam scale.

ETA: Too many of us have tried many alternatives. Perhaps some have wound up with 6 other scales . . . like me . . . before finally giving in to the A&D.