More fuel on the 30BR powder fire . . .

[RGRobinett]

Here are the results of initial testing using 118 Gr. bullets and Accurate Arms 2200. The platform: Ware/RFD LVS rifle (10.5#); Morrison 1:18" twist; B&L 4200/36X; Petersen 7mmBR brass; Rem. 71/2. The three "sacrificial" cases will be used to work up to the point of either excessive pressure, groups opening back up, or, a combination of the two. Today, will be mostly dedicated to obtaining useful DATA for this component combination. (Note: this paragraph edited to correct/compensate for [relying on] my poor memory. The action was TRUED/TIMED by [the late] Stan Ware, and the barrel is a Morrison, NOT a PacNor.)

Thus far, there has been no measurable case-head expansion, and extraction has been easy. I am expecting somewhat better precision before excessive pressure develops. Yes, the initial charge weight increases were LARGE, however, for something which may prove useful, grouping and pressure were as expected (increasing charge weight reduced vertical). From here, until excessive pressure is encountered, increases will be via .5 Gr. increments. I do NOT recommend this DATA to be used - only to point out that, for the thirty caliber expansion ratio (small case-capacity, short/light weight bullet combination), there are MANY potentially good powder options.

THE big question: how might they perform over a range of temperatures and time . . . Time and weather permitting, several other powders will be put to the test. That said, to PROVE the worth, following load development, one must move on to tournament shooting. Will the load hold it's own against competition proven combinations - that is, "where it's at". The quest is where the fun resides. RG

 

[sqrlgtr]

RG,
"Yes, the initial charge weight increases were LARGE" but did You take any velocity readings??? Have some CFE BLK been wanting to try just havnt gotten around to it lol....
Thanks JJ

 

[RGRobinett]

RG,
"Yes, the initial charge weight increases were LARGE" but did You take any velocity readings??? Have some CFE BLK been wanting to try just havnt gotten around to it lol....
Thanks JJ

Not interested in velocity until group potential and max pressure are observed - will break out a chrono once the charge window is identified. Of note, 34.0; 34.5 and 35.0 Gr all produced the same "odd-shape" (probably missing the vector when it's near 1:00 O'clock) and nearly identical size 3-shot groups . . . nothing to get excited over, but showing some potential. Also, the last pair maintained near identical elevation - indicative of a decent "node"/ charge-weight window. Still no measurable case-head expansion and easy extraction. RG

 

[Larry Koch]

I’ve tried CFE BLK in 30 Major. It has potential. The main reason I stop was I switch to
30 BR. And pretty much stayed with LT-30. Bullets Being in short supply at that time.
Now I roll my own. Thanks to Randys tip and Speedy mentoring.

 

[RGRobinett]

About all a geezer can handle for one day - as usual, made following my method maddening. Without any signs of excessive pressure, the AA 2200 "blew-up" at 35.5 Gr - highest Rt 3-shot "group". Returned to five-shots @ 35.o Gr., &"zeroed" the scope (center left) two-shots: 11 clicks down. Then three with center hold on Top RT bull - ok, but not great.

Then, a 5-shot group at 35.5 - yep, another "blow-up" (center Rt). Then, back to a pair of 5-shot groups (bottom RT bull) @ 35.0 Gr.: one as worked-up (0.030" jam-seat) and one at 0.010" off of just touch - way more vertical - yikes! Despite a true zephyr, the AA2200 lacked "magic" - no tendency to, "cut conditions", so, for yours truly, the quest continues.

Obviously, there was no fine-tuning done - the pilot veered from ditch-to-ditch . . . that's BIG MIKE'S style - there's gotta be a little magic, or, he's screwed . . . still, he's promised to return with the chronograph and finish the report.

Per "reports", posted over many years (now, fully 25 years of shooting 30 BRs in registered tournaments), I have used a multitude of powders to win/place/show - and to humiliate myself - it seems that, for those lacking a "stash", the best numbers are relegated to memory. A brief rehash - these powders have all produced fake wood and a few HoF points: H-4227; H-4198; H-322; RL-7; N-130; Tubal 2000. For me, the TOP performers have been H-4227 (EXTREM), H-322(EXTREME) and H-4198(EXTREME) - all manufactured by ADI - and, to a lesser extent, Tu 2000, by NOBEL SPORT.

The list to explore is just about any number between 66 and 84 (burn rate chart in post #1) - any/all my prove useful - remember the burn-rates do not consider expansion ratio - ignore, your prejudices and explore! That said, I have a prejudice against "ball powders" - historically, all but the Old Reliable Win. 748, have often gone AWOL on match day . . . however, even some the "new" & "slower" ball powders (maybe even 748), due to their greater density could work much better than expected based upon perusing a burn-rate chart.

Think H-322 (at volume equal to 34.8 Gr. H-4198, 2.4 Gr. heavier!) - shoot's CONSISTENTLY GREAT, goes slower - the score keeper doesn't care! Many/most of the newer ball powders, via the same comparison, are 5 Gr. heavier than the Jones powder measure setting which drops 34.8 Gr. of H-4198! perhaps there IS some magic hidden in the mix. RG

P.S. Relative to any other chart I've got, this burn-rate chart is quite stirred-up - more evidence that not much is absolute. For comparison, I have added the original [self explanatory] 30BR tune-up target using Tu-2000 (all 5-shot groups) - that barrel liked the low end weights - immediately following, the rig produced 100/200/Grand Agg winner wood.

 

[AlNyhus]

Looking forward to the next chapter! Thanks for taking the time to do this. It should encourage people to just go out and try stuff....like BR shooters used to do.

Good shootin' -Al

 

[jimmymac]

Looking forward to the next chapter! Thanks for taking the time to do this. It should encourage people to just go out and try stuff....like BR shooters used to do.

Good shootin' -Al

Much thanks to Randy for sharing his knowledge and test results. You too Al. You've given me quite a few nuggets of wisdom to think about.

I love testing. It may be what I like most. As you know, I try stuff out all the time to gain knowledge and hopefully an edge. I mostly don't post it here though because it doesn't take long for keyboard jockey naysayers to come out of the woodwork to shit in my Cheerios.

 

[BobT]

I am completely new to the .30 BR and I really appreciate all of you guys testing and sharing so freely! I have yet to load or fire my first round but am rapidly getting there. I'm waiting on a scope to get back in stock and a few more loading supplies (bullets mainly) to come in and I'll be ready to rock.

 

[Mulligan]

@RGRobinett
Randy, thanks a ton for sharing. I don’t even shoot a 30BR (yet) but I gleen a little bit out of all the testing posts.
Like Jimmy in his post above, I love testing. Likely more than attending matches, but the comradery keeps me coming back.
This is good stuff, thanks again for sharing

CW

 

[ebb]

Any chance of trying Norma 200?

 

[Bill Norris]

@RGRobinett
Randy, thanks a ton for sharing. I don’t even shoot a 30BR (yet) but I gleen a little bit out of all the testing posts.
Like Jimmy in his post above, I love testing. Likely more than attending matches, but the comradery keeps me coming back.
This is good stuff, thanks again for sharing

CW

Absolutely agree. Always learn from these guys that test and share. Thats what its all about for me. If I try something and see that it works well I share it here. The 30BR is one of my favorites to test.

 

[Mulligan]

Any chance of trying Norma 200?

Is Norma still making powder?

I sent them an email a year or two ago asking the same question, the reply stated no powder sales.
CW

 

[jackieschmidt]

Any chance of trying Norma 200?

I tried Norma 200 a few years ago. I was “given” 16 pounds of it by a friend who was trying to make it work in his 6PPC.

The results were not bad at all. The problem was, they weren’t great. It simply would not Agg with 4198.
The way the 30 caliber game has evolved in the pst few years, you simply cannot leave anything on the table.

I am really interested in Randy’s 2200/Peterson brass test. More the Peterson brass aspect.

The single problem is, it is too short for my chamber. I do have my original 30BR reamer from years ago before I went to the longer neck. If the Peterson proves just as good as Lapua, the ease of making cases would make it worthwhile.

As of now, I have signed on to the N-130 bandwagon. It has been shooting quite well, but it is a little slower than most of the other powders, (except 322).

 

[nakneker]

Nice post/thread, RR helping and sharing as always. Thanks!

 

[BoydAllen]

Randy,
Thanks for sharing the results of your testing. I look forward to more of the same when you have the time and inclination. For me, the good news is what you shared about H4895. I have a decent amount.
Boyd

 

[JimPag]

About all a geezer can handle for one day - as usual, made following my method maddening. Without any signs of excessive pressure, the AA 2200 "blew-up" at 35.5 Gr - highest Rt 3-shot "group". Returned to five-shots @ 35.o Gr., &"zeroed" the scope (center left) two-shots: 11 clicks down. Then three with center hold on Top RT bull - ok, but not great.

Then, a 5-shot group at 35.5 - yep, another "blow-up" (center Rt). Then, back to a pair of 5-shot groups (bottom RT bull) @ 35.0 Gr.: one as worked-up (0.030" jam-seat) and one at 0.010" off of just touch - way more vertical - yikes! Despite a true zephyr, the AA2200 lacked "magic" - no tendency to, "cut conditions", so, for yours truly, the quest continues.

Obviously, there was no fine-tuning done - the pilot veered from ditch-to-ditch . . . that's BIG MIKE'S style - there's gotta be a little magic, or, he's screwed . . . still, he's promised to return with the chronograph and finish the report.

Per "reports", posted over many years (now, fully 25 years of shooting 30 BRs in registered tournaments), I have used a multitude of powders to win/place/show - and to humiliate myself - it seems that, for those lacking a "stash", the best numbers are relegated to memory. A brief rehash - these powders have all produced fake wood and a few HoF points: H-4227; H-4198; H-322; RL-7; N-130; Tubal 2000. For me, the TOP performers have been H-4227 (EXTREM), H-322(EXTREME) and H-4198(EXTREME) - all manufactured by ADI - and, to a lesser extent, Tu 2000, by NOBEL SPORT.

The list to explore is just about any number between 66 and 84 (burn rate chart in post #1) - any/all my prove useful - remember the burn-rates do not consider expansion ratio - ignore, your prejudices and explore! That said, I have a prejudice against "ball powders" - historically, all but the Old Reliable Win. 748, have often gone AWOL on match day . . . however, even some the "new" & "slower" ball powders (maybe even 748), due to their greater density could work much better than expected based upon perusing a burn-rate chart.

Think H-322 (at volume equal to 34.8 Gr. H-4198, 2.4 Gr. heavier!) - shoot's CONSISTENTLY GREAT, goes slower - the score keeper doesn't care! Many/most of the newer ball powders, via the same comparison, are 5 Gr. heavier than the Jones powder measure setting which drops 34.8 Gr. of H-4198! perhaps there IS some magic hidden in the mix. RG

P.S. Relative to any other chart I've got, this burn-rate chart is quite stirred-up - more evidence that not much is absolute. For comparison, I have added the original [self explanatory] 30BR tune-up target using Tu-2000 (all 5-shot groups) - that barrel liked the low end weights - immediately following, the rig produced 100/200/Grand Agg winner wood.View attachment 1502811View attachment 1502793

After I started SR score shooting in 2013 a number of guys that I know had a bunch of Tubal 2000. I asked each one where they got it and I don't remember where they said they purchased it but every single guy told me that they bought a bunch of it because whoever was selling it was asking 6 bucks a pound. I still have some T2000 myself. I remember Dave Apple and Jim Goody bought a bunch of it. I know you know both of them Randy. I also have used SMP735 powder in a 30BR and it shot pretty well. I bought a 45 pound keg of it about 15 years ago for 900 bucks. Have you ever tried that stuff?

 

[ebb]

RG Robinett and Larry Kock, does the 30BR have an advantage over the 30 major? I would like for simplicity sake to use the PPC bolt face on my rifle and just change the barrel. Does this in any way result in a chambering that is more complicated to load for than 30 BR or create problems?

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Any chance of trying Norma 200?

You must have a bunch or something. Lol! I think it was you that asked in another thread about it. IME, it's very good and loads very much like h4198. The problem is(unless something has changed), it's no longer being imported.

But yes, I've shot a fair bit of it and it's a good alternative while it lasts but it'll be gone when you run out, AFAIK. Load some up and report back on here. I'd start at 33.0 and work up with 112-118 bullets.

 

[JimPag]

All I have to say

RG Robinett and Larry Kock, does the 30BR have an advantage over the 30 major? I would like for simplicity sake to use the PPC bolt face on my rifle and just change the barrel. Does this in any way result in a chambering that is more complicated to load for than 30 BR or create problems?

All I have to say about that is look how many people are using each in competition. The answer is pretty damn clear which one is the better choice. If the 30 Major was better more people would be using it but the ratio isn't even close. I tried the 30 Gorilla which has a 35 degree shoulder vs the 30 for the Major and it never even came close to a 30BR. I gave up on that cartridge many years ago. A friend of mine back in 2013 told me not to waste my time on that cartridge because he too tried a variant called the 30RCH and he couldn't get that going either and he's the best SR score shooter in the IBS.

 

[ebb]

No I never knew Norma 200even existed until I looked at the burn rate chart that RGR posted and it looked closer to H 4198 than the powder he tested. Somewhere in the back of my mind I had a thought that one of the 30 caliber PPC based chamberings held a world record that even the 30 BR didn't have, but my mind isn't what it used to be. I have a 6PPC and I used to get to shoot with some real BR shooters that had some pretty good guns until the guy that had the range, we shoot at passed from cancer. So not any exposure since he is gone. He had a 30BR that would really shoot, but I think if truth be known he had a 22waldog that he sold to a lady that shot at the same range that would outshoot the 30BR. She has a son that is into tactical rifles and used to show off when she took him to the range when he was visiting. She bought this rifle just to put him in his place, and she did every time he came for a visit.