Moly coating bullets? Good or bad
- Thread starter tom_bach
- Start date
While i realize you are asking about 20 cal bullets I will relate my experience with Berger 17 cal moly coated bullets.
I was in the retail business and sold 2 customers Lilja 17 cal 9 twist barrels. Moly was new at the time and many people had fell for the moly hype. After about 300 rounds (with a normal cleaning regimen with shooters choice) both rifles started to throw bullets. Many bullets did not hit a target at 100 yards. At 25 yards with targets displaying comet tails around the bullet holes, it became apparent that the bullets were coming apart. A call to Dan Lilja resulted in his suggestion that a moly build up in the throat was the likely culprit. The barrels were both returned to him to be re-lapped. Both rifles shot sub .5 moa again post lapping. Problem solved.
Moly may be good for larger calibre rifles; but for small calibre rifles, shooting bullets with thin jackets, I don't think it is a smart choice. There are many solvents at your disposal that will remove copper and carbon fouling but not many; if any, that remove a moly buildup.
I was in the retail business and sold 2 customers Lilja 17 cal 9 twist barrels. Moly was new at the time and many people had fell for the moly hype. After about 300 rounds (with a normal cleaning regimen with shooters choice) both rifles started to throw bullets. Many bullets did not hit a target at 100 yards. At 25 yards with targets displaying comet tails around the bullet holes, it became apparent that the bullets were coming apart. A call to Dan Lilja resulted in his suggestion that a moly build up in the throat was the likely culprit. The barrels were both returned to him to be re-lapped. Both rifles shot sub .5 moa again post lapping. Problem solved.
Moly may be good for larger calibre rifles; but for small calibre rifles, shooting bullets with thin jackets, I don't think it is a smart choice. There are many solvents at your disposal that will remove copper and carbon fouling but not many; if any, that remove a moly buildup.
I think when people were waxing over the Moly this caused many problems. A good many of the top longrange shooters are using moly with great results. They are not waxing over the Moly.
And it shows.
alf is right. I molyed always without wax and had no problems. I found with molyed bullets I did not have to clean as often. Grouping well even after 30 rounds. Never could shoot that many rounds with naked bullets. Never used wax and never had any build up of moly. With naked bullets I do have to clean more often, but grouping was good with both molyed and the naked ones. I believe the wax used with moly is the culprit.
I have been shooting my own moly coated bullets in my .223s since the mid 80s.
I have had not a single "issue" the nay sayers spew about. I never waxed them. Every gun I ran them through has gone WAY over 12k rounds & then some more. P-dog shooting 300 - 500 rounds a day makes a giant difference when I do not have to clean the barrel after 50 or less straight shots w/ naked bullets.
this is the only caliber I moly since I shoot so darn many of them.
It works for many and for others it does not.
I have had not a single "issue" the nay sayers spew about. I never waxed them. Every gun I ran them through has gone WAY over 12k rounds & then some more. P-dog shooting 300 - 500 rounds a day makes a giant difference when I do not have to clean the barrel after 50 or less straight shots w/ naked bullets.
this is the only caliber I moly since I shoot so darn many of them.
It works for many and for others it does not.
Well, Moly coating does several things for you. One benefit is to help keep the barrel clean longer, and longer barrel life is a good thing.
The other major affect is reduced friction to push the bullet down the barrel (think a way to lower pressure). Example, if you had a load that was very near maximum, and you switched to Moly Bullets that load might need a few % more powder to reach maximum again. In practice, it is a way to shift the pressure vs. velocity curve (slightly) but you'll need to work up your loads over again, as the harmonics will shift a little since the bullet will not be in the same place with the same pressure. I wouldn't recommend this for a 20 practical, but load it and see how it goes. Usually, Moly coated bullets are a way to keep the heavy bullets moving when case volume is near full and/or pressure is near max. A moly 90gr SMK in a 223 might a better choice than a non-moly 90gr in same case.
Has anyone found anything different?
-Mac
PS As an engineer, I would guess that Moly'd bullets would have a smoother transition between accuracy nodes as well as a possible more stable and consistent ES. I haven't the data to prove one way or the other and it would still depend on many many other variables, however, do your own experiment to find out.
The other major affect is reduced friction to push the bullet down the barrel (think a way to lower pressure). Example, if you had a load that was very near maximum, and you switched to Moly Bullets that load might need a few % more powder to reach maximum again. In practice, it is a way to shift the pressure vs. velocity curve (slightly) but you'll need to work up your loads over again, as the harmonics will shift a little since the bullet will not be in the same place with the same pressure. I wouldn't recommend this for a 20 practical, but load it and see how it goes. Usually, Moly coated bullets are a way to keep the heavy bullets moving when case volume is near full and/or pressure is near max. A moly 90gr SMK in a 223 might a better choice than a non-moly 90gr in same case.
Has anyone found anything different?
-Mac
PS As an engineer, I would guess that Moly'd bullets would have a smoother transition between accuracy nodes as well as a possible more stable and consistent ES. I haven't the data to prove one way or the other and it would still depend on many many other variables, however, do your own experiment to find out.
Agree, I've been shooting them in all my rifle since they were first introduced years ago and have noticed a single problem caused by them and have never had any accuracy problems that they caused...
I have had a Savage LRPV 7 twist .223 about 6 years used only in competition as a factory class. Throughout its life, I have shot exclusively Berger 80 grain VLD, molyed, unwaxed, bullets. The original barrel now has 2,800 pills down the pipe, and still shoots half min. groups. I recently had my smith bore scope it, and he said all he could find was a little fire cracking ahead of the chamber. This is the only comp rifle for which I moly coat.
I clean about every 50 rounds. I have found that you must be careful about cleaning on a regular basis. Moly attracts moisture, and I have found light rust in my bore after a thorough cleaning.
I clean about every 50 rounds. I have found that you must be careful about cleaning on a regular basis. Moly attracts moisture, and I have found light rust in my bore after a thorough cleaning.
thekriebles
Gold $$ Contributor
My father and I use the moly product from NECO for coating custom and factory bullets. We also use moly bullets from Berger. We don't use a wax coating and do utilize the proper plating and polishing technique/application. We shoot cartridges from .172 cal. to .338 cal. with ZERO issues. Our barrels, throats and chambers have remained immaculate as evidenced by a bore scope. Cleaning frequency and cleaning time are greatly reduced. Copper fouling is not present.
As a result, we are huge proponents.
As a result, we are huge proponents.
I started to moly this year after many years of having an argument with myself about the alleged pros and cons. I took a brand now 308 Palma barrel an a 6SLR re-chambered 243 AI. Obviously the 308 needed broken in or seasoned which ever you prescribe to, the 243 AI had 500+ rounds down it as a 6SLR. Here is what I found: Accuracy nodes were easier to center up, meaning it shot virtually the same with-in .2-.3 tenths of a grain. It took at least .001 smaller neck bushing to hold the bullets in the case, meaning the friction level had been reduced. I found that regardless of the cartridge, it took between .3 and .5 gr. more powder to achieve identical velocities. Finally, at the advice of a fellow shooter, he told me to just run a couple of patches with brake cleaner on them down the bore after each match, so as to NOT remove the moly base in the bore. I have a bore scope and it gets plenty of use. I will say, that my rifles stay in a warm, dry vault but I've seen no indications of rust since this spring. When I'm done competing for the season, I will clean them to bare metal and scope them carefully. BTW, I moly using the water method, and them wax, but very sparingly. So I guess I'm one of the pro group, I hope this helps,
Lloyd
Lloyd
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.