Modied Berger 105s for Prairie dogs

[RAG]

I've built up a 6x47L, and chambering up a 25x47L also, to be used for longer range, or mid-range on those windy days, on Prairie dogs.

Has anyone tried modifying match bullets, such as the Berger LR Hybrid 105, for better expansion?

I bought a micro drill bit set, so im able to chuck the bullet in drill and upon up the HP just a bit. You can actually open it up a fair amount without affecting the outside Diameter… essentially just thinning out the jacket at the tip. I even went one step further by taking a file and thinning the jacket at the leading .1" of the tip. As.ling as bullet is chucked and spinning, it should remain concentric. I tested one group of 5 shots at 400 yards and didn't notice a difference in accuracy, but haven't tested in live targets yet.

My thought/hope is that bullet could be made more explosive without impacting BC much at all.

 

[RAG]

I suspect the more jacket material you remove with a file, the more likely you are to induce BC inconsistency. Although i think ita possible ro get a routine down (i.e., 7 file strokes each time). But in doing so I am hoping to achieve rapid expansion without having to open up the meplat/HP much and still achieve rapid expansion.

Not sure what would have the greatest impact, thinner jacket material at the leading edge or larger HP. Probably a little of both. I'll have to play with this concept more, first on targets, then on Prairie.

Simplest solution is to simply open up the HP with micro drill, but I like the idea of thinning the jacket's leading edge too.

 

[Walt Krafft]

Why not just get the Berger hunting or varmint bullets?

 

[KMart]

I suspect the more jacket material you remove with a file, the more likely you are to induce BC inconsistency. Although i think ita possible ro get a routine down (i.e., 7 file strokes each time). But in doing so I am hoping to achieve rapid expansion without having to open up the meplat/HP much and still achieve rapid expansion.

Not sure what would have the greatest impact, thinner jacket material at the leading edge or larger HP. Probably a little of both. I'll have to play with this concept more, first on targets, then on Prairie.

Simplest solution is to simply open up the HP with micro drill, but I like the idea of thinning the jacket's leading edge too.

Sounds like if you used the David Tubb nose ring engraver on the bullets, you may achieve what you are asking for. There are ballistic gel tests on You Tube showing the front half of the bullet going away on the engraved bullets.

 

[Pietro panama]

I shoot Berger 105 hybrids at longer range dogs from 6 Dasher. Big bullet, small animal, not sure expansion necessary.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I've built up a 6x47L, and chambering up a 25x47L also, to be used for longer range, or mid-range on those windy days, on Prairie dogs.

Has anyone tried modifying match bullets, such as the Berger LR Hybrid 105, for better expansion?

I bought a micro drill bit set, so im able to chuck the bullet in drill and upon up the HP just a bit. You can actually open it up a fair amount without affecting the outside Diameter… essentially just thinning out the jacket at the tip. I even went one step further by taking a file and thinning the jacket at the leading .1" of the tip. As.ling as bullet is chucked and spinning, it should remain concentric. I tested one group of 5 shots at 400 yards and didn't notice a difference in accuracy, but haven't tested in live targets yet.

My thought/hope is that bullet could be made more explosive without impacting BC much at all.

Tubb nose ring cutter does EXACTLY what you want. As soon as they are available. It absolutely improves the explosive properties of match bullets.

 

[Capt. Oblivious]

If your not to worried about reducing BC a bit just trim the meplate and see how they explode

 

[Webster]

I've built up a 6x47L, and chambering up a 25x47L also, to be used for longer range, or mid-range on those windy days, on Prairie dogs.

Has anyone tried modifying match bullets, such as the Berger LR Hybrid 105, for better expansion?

I bought a micro drill bit set, so im able to chuck the bullet in drill and upon up the HP just a bit. You can actually open it up a fair amount without affecting the outside Diameter… essentially just thinning out the jacket at the tip. I even went one step further by taking a file and thinning the jacket at the leading .1" of the tip. As.ling as bullet is chucked and spinning, it should remain concentric. I tested one group of 5 shots at 400 yards and didn't notice a difference in accuracy, but haven't tested in live targets yet.

My thought/hope is that bullet could be made more explosive without impacting BC much at all.

I would think a hole all the way thru would kill a PD without any expansion. Buy bullets made for what you intend to use them for. No need to get OCD.

 

[pdhntr]

I messed with this years ago in an effort to load some rounds for my father and his .243 for pds at ranges in excess of 400 yards.

I made a jig to file down the meplat so they were close to the same, and I also experimented by filing some down more than others.

I can't recall just exactly what the bullet was I used, but I believe it was the Berger 105, before the hybrid, so take this for what it is worth.

The terminal performance was improved at closer ranges, but the farther out you got, the less dependable they got. Even at the same range, some would open up, others would not. I came to the conclusion that the jacket being thicker (?) and less likely to be upset, was the issue to overcome. Of course if the prairie dogs were more well built, the results may have been different.

I realize nothing is foolproof, but with the inevitable "crawl offs" we decided to look for other bullets to use. We went to the 87 V-max and 88 gr. Berger.

I don't know what the Tubb nose ring cutter is so can't comment on that.

Make sure you have some hills in the way as they will tend to ricochet more than a varmint bullet.

Good luck.

Jim

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

For, Sage Rats ( AKA, whistle Pigs ) they are a bit smaller than PD's...
I drive, the 80 Grain Berger, HP "Varmint's",.. 3,200 FPS with, IMR 4350 and with, very little, Muzzle rise !
They are NOT, as "Explosive" as 87 V-Maxes, BUT,.. WAY more, consistently, "accurate", ( .2's and .3's ) in my 1-7.5 twist, Criterion bbl'd, Braked, 9.5 Pound, 6 XC.
Only "Flips" them up, a couple of feet, in the Air !
But, cuts them, in Half,.. every time !
I have, plenty of Shot opportunities to, 300 yards, Max. with NO need, to shoot, any further.
THIS Bullet, "works" well, for me !

 

[RAG]

Wow, I didn't know about the Tubbs Nose Engraver. I will check it out for sure!

And yes, a center mass quarter .243 or .257 hole through a p-dog, even if pencils through, should do the trick. But I don't like crawl off when you just catch an edge. I plan to use v-max bullets for 90% of my shooting needs, but even the 87 v-max doesn't do nearly as well in heavy winds as the Berger LR Hybrid offerings.

 

[RAG]

For, Sage Rats ( AKA, whistle Pigs ) they are a bit smaller than PD's...
I drive, the 80 Grain Berger, HP "Varmint's",.. 3,200 FPS with, IMR 4350 and with, very little, Muzzle rise !
They are NOT, as "Explosive" as 87 V-Maxes, BUT,.. WAY more, consistently, "accurate", ( .2's and .3's ) in my 1-7.5 twist, Criterion bbl'd, Braked, 9.5 Pound, 6 XC.
Only "Flips" them up, a couple of feet, in the Air !
But, cuts them, in Half,.. every time !
I have, plenty of Shot opportunities to, 300 yards, Max. with NO need, to shoot, any further.
THIS Bullet, "works" well, for me !

I like to shoot whistle pigs too...and in the afternoon, it always seems to be windy, so I will give this offering a try in my 6x47L, thank you!

 

[RAG]

If your not to worried about reducing BC a bit just trim the meplate and see how they explode

Right. Well, I'd prefer not to impact BC too much of course. Again, I've yet to try on live targets, but I have microbit drill set where I can choose the perfect size bit to open up the inside of the meplat/HP without impacting the length or shape of the bullet,,,resulting extremely thin jacket at the tip...this might just do enough to produce the reliable/rapid expansion im looking for.

I'll of course try/experiment next year!

 

[RAG]

I messed with this years ago in an effort to load some rounds for my father and his .243 for pds at ranges in excess of 400 yards.

I made a jig to file down the meplat so they were close to the same, and I also experimented by filing some down more than others.

I can't recall just exactly what the bullet was I used, but I believe it was the Berger 105, before the hybrid, so take this for what it is worth.

The terminal performance was improved at closer ranges, but the farther out you got, the less dependable they got. Even at the same range, some would open up, others would not. I came to the conclusion that the jacket being thicker (?) and less likely to be upset, was the issue to overcome. Of course if the prairie dogs were more well built, the results may have been different.

I realize nothing is foolproof, but with the inevitable "crawl offs" we decided to look for other bullets to use. We went to the 87 V-max and 88 gr. Berger.

I don't know what the Tubb nose ring cutter is so can't comment on that.

Make sure you have some hills in the way as they will tend to ricochet more than a varmint bullet.

Good luck.

Jim

Right, I'm waiting for the 87-vmax to become available again, and I already worked up a load for the Berger 88s too, thanks!

Also, I suspect it likely the 105s you were shooting were not the thinner J4 jackets used in the LR Hybrids.

 

[KMart]

I've built up a 6x47L, and chambering up a 25x47L also, to be used for longer range, or mid-range on those windy days, on Prairie dogs.

Re-16 will be your friend with the 25x47L using the 115 Berger. I hope you are putting at least a 9 twist barrel on it.

Here is a 4 shot group @ 600 yd I shot a couple of weeks ago.

 

[searcher]

I would think a hole all the way thru would kill a PD without any expansion. Buy bullets made for what you intend to use them for. No need to get OCD.

"Crawlers" are worth 5 points, second only to cannibals @ 10 points. The problem with buying the bullet for what is intended is that there are no 105 grain 6mm varmint bullets. The intent is to hit them waaaay out there. The 87's run out of steam - if your gun will even shoot them.

 

[Capt. Oblivious]

Try some 108gr ELD's

 

[1mil]

"Crawlers" are worth 5 points, second only to cannibals @ 10 points. The problem with buying the bullet for what is intended is that there are no 105 grain 6mm varmint bullets. The intent is to hit them waaaay out there. The 87's run out of steam - if your gun will even shoot them.

How do you score doubles?

 

[RAG]

Re-16 will be your friend with the 25x47L using the 115 Berger. I hope you are putting at least a 9 twist barrel on it.

Here is a 4 shot group @ 600 yd I shot a couple of weeks ago.

Nice group! Yeah, for the 25x47L, I'm going with 1-7" twist, and plan to shoot the Berger 135 LR Hybrid for varmints, cause they have thin J4 jacket, and cause they have a .65 G1 (mostly I'm wanting to maximize my hits on P-Dogs in the 350-450yd range in 15-20mph winds). I also got some BlackJack Ace 131s, but they use a thicker jacket (so maybe less frangible), but they also have incredible BC (.34 G7, .65 G1), so until you get into the really big stuff, there isn't anything better for bucking the wind.

 

[RAG]

Try some 108gr ELD's

Will do! Sure wish the 105Amax was still around...I tried them a dozen years ago in a 243, but didn't have enough twist.