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Modern Match Loads for 7.5X55mm Swiss

One of my precision rifles is a Remington 700 built specifically to shoot Swiss GP11 ammo, which has a reputation for excellent accuracy. My gun routinely shoots GP11 between .5MOA and 1MOA. I have plenty of GP11 on hand and don't need to reload, but would like the option. Does anyone reading this thread have experience loading the 7.5 Swiss for both excellent accuracy and for pressures higher than standard. For example, the GP11 cartridge develops less than 50,000psi when fired (174 grain bullet at 2580fps), but the Remington 700 can routinely handle up to 60,000psi chamber pressure. What I'm looking for are loads using Sierra Match King bullets between 175 grains and 210 grains at pressures between 55,000 and 60,000 psi. I've attached pics of my rifle in case you are interested.IMAG0929.jpg IMAG0928.jpg IMG_20160729_165202459.jpg IMG_20160729_165137700.jpg

Keith
 
I think those rifles have a couple different groove diameters. Best accuracy typically happens with bullets about .0005" larger than groove diameter. Slug yours then mic the slug.

Mic bullets, then compare.
 
I think those rifles have a couple different groove diameters. Best accuracy typically happens with bullets about .0005" larger than groove diameter. Slug yours then mic the slug.

Mic bullets, then compare.

Let me clarify. I am NOT shooting a Swiss rifle such as a K31. The rifle shown is custom all the way. It has a 28" Palma contour Brux barrel sized .298"/306" and a GP11 chamber set to minimum headspace. What I'm looking for is load data that goes beyond the loading manuals.
Keith
 
I use Reloder 16 and 175gr Sierra or the 175RDF Nosler. Seems to shoot fine in my K31 and 50gr will give you 2660 so that should be good starting point if you are interested in that powder.
 
The Hornady Reloading Manual has 7.5x55 Swiss data I believe. An increase from 50K to 60K would be a small (perhaps 1-2 grains) increase in their loads. Be aware that the brass may or may not tolerate the increase. Work up slowly in .2 gr. increments watching for primer flattening and velocity spikes.
 
Im not sure of the pressure.. but from lost of research I developed at load for mine that shoots hella good. Supposely its very close to GP11 ammo.

Norma brass
Reloader 17
175 berger vld
Cci or federal primer

.5 moa to sub .5 moa at 100 yards
 
I learned a long time ago a slow hit is much better than a fast miss. I would strive for accuracy over speed. You may be able to bump your speed a little bit but be VERY CAREFUL and go up in no more than .2 grs at a time. With 175s I would try powders in the 4350 burn rate and you should find good accuracy with usable speed. Basically you probably can get 30-06 performance.

Nice looking rifle. Oh, by the way be sure and remove that bore site before you go to shoot. LOL I know a guy that forgot and left one of the laser type bore sites in his bore and shot it. Barrel looked like Elmer Fuds after Buggs stuffed a carrot in the end of it. Peeled like a banana.
 
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Let me clarify. I am NOT shooting a Swiss rifle such as a K31. The rifle shown is custom all the way. It has a 28" Palma contour Brux barrel sized .298"/306" and a GP11 chamber set to minimum headspace. What I'm looking for is load data that goes beyond the loading manuals.
Keith
Well, that's good data. That's the tightest bore/groove numbers for 30 caliber bullets I've seen. Why so small?

The British fullbore long range rifles used .3065" groove barrels for .3070" bullets in 7.62 NATO M80 ammo they had to use. Those 147 gr. bullets had a short bearing length and were very accurate. Heavier and longer .3082" or larger bullets didn't do as well. 30 caliber Sierra HPMK bullets are .3082" or a tad bigger.

Therefore, I suggest using the smallest diameter, good quality 150 grain or so bullets if the twist is 1:12 or slower. IMR4895 powder might be best. Here's a place to start:

http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/pierre/data.html

What's the barrel twist?

Update.... just learned that case is a bit bigger than 30-06 cases. With the barrel's tight .306" groove diameter, 30-06 starting load data may be a good place to begin best load development. .
 
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Sniper338 was right on the dime.

The GP11 uses RL-17 powder and the VLD 175 is about as close as you can get to the GP11 bullets.
I tried a couple different bullets in PPU cases in my K-31 with excellant with RL-17. Don't know what the actual dimensions of the K-31 barrel is though.
I have switched to RL-16 for my 7X57 hunting rifle as well as my 284 WIN long range BR gun
from RL-16 with near identical performance but better temp stability. The loads do change a bit tho. I also coated the barrel and bullets with hBN.
 
Well, that's good data. That's the tightest bore/groove numbers for 30 caliber bullets I've seen. Why so small?

What's the barrel twist?


Bart,
Here is an ordnance drawing of the GP11 projectile. Notice that the diameter goes from 7.7mm (.30315") to 7.87mm (.30787"). It is not built like US bullets that traditionally have a consistent diameter between ogive and base. The twist is very lose to the original K31 twist, 1 in 10.5".
Keith
800px-Balle_ord_11.png
 
I apparently need to clarify further. The gun was specifically designed to shoot GP11 ammo and not .308" bullets such as the Sierra Match King. The bore diameter is very, very close to a Swiss K31 bore in terms of size and twist. I know from experience that 168 grain Sierra Match Kings shoot exceptionally well in K31s, so that led me to my original question...if I want to do more than just duplicate the GP11 ballistics, but in fact improve upon them in terms of drop, drift and accuracy, then what experience do forum members have in boosting the performance of the 7.5X55mm Swiss cartridge in a rifle built to take higher pressures, like mine?
 
The GP11 is a .308 not .306. If you pull a GP11 project you can see that it's .308. Here's a metric pictures of it and if you do the conversion it's .3078 basically .308. Lots of misinformed information around on the Swiss firearms. Other common mistakes are that the k31 is a Schmidt Rubin design which is false it was Furrer who made it and Rubin's ammo (7.5x55 Swiss). Also simple things like K11, 96/11, G11, and K31 getting mixed up with each other. And if you ever talk to a a former Swiss soldier know that the k11 and K31 are carbines. If you say rifle they laugh because rifle for them were the 96/11 and G11.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/07/Balle_ord_11.png/479px-Balle_ord_11.png
 
Well, that's good data. That's the tightest bore/groove numbers for 30 caliber bullets I've seen. Why so small?

The British fullbore long range rifles used .3065" groove barrels for .3070" bullets in 7.62 NATO M80 ammo they had to use. Those 147 gr. bullets had a short bearing length and were very accurate. Heavier and longer .3082" or larger bullets didn't do as well. 30 caliber Sierra HPMK bullets are .3082" or a tad bigger.

Therefore, I suggest using the smallest diameter, good quality 150 grain or so bullets if the twist is 1:12 or slower. IMR4895 powder might be best. Here's a place to start:

http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/pierre/data.html

What's the barrel twist?

Update.... just learned that case is a bit bigger than 30-06 cases. With the barrel's tight .306" groove diameter, 30-06 starting load data may be a good place to begin best load development. .

The British NRA banned the tight bore .308 barrels due to dangerous high chamber pressures shooting issued military ammunition.
 
The British NRA banned the tight bore .308 barrels due to dangerous high chamber pressures shooting issued military ammunition.

Other way round. Tight bore was developed for and used with issued ball ammunition primarily Radway Green Arsenal's 144gn 'Black Spot' standard ball, and the slightly improved 146gn 'Green Spot' sniper variant both in use with UK forces until the late 1980s. (The 1984 Falklands War showed up how poor the then standard Lee-Enfield No.4 based L42A1 sniper rifle and its ammunition were and as part of the postwar review induced changes saw urgent respecifications and tenders issued for new improved models.) Both of these pre-1990s RG 7.62mm bullets were significantly under standard 30-calibre diameters and benefited from tight bores and also because of concentricity / balance / uneven jacket thickness issues very slow rifling twists, 1:14 being the norm. RG then developed a 155gn FMJBT bullet for its sniper ammo which although still smaller than a commercial 308 match was closer and although the new sniper round (eventually packaged as 'RG Bisley Match' for the civilian market) could be shot in the tight very slow twist barrels, a move to only a little under SAAMI dimensions and 1:13 twist pitch took place.

Although the 155gn RG round was better than the 146gn 'Green Spot' both in long-range external ballistics and in production quality, unhappiness over its consistency grew especially after one of two very poor lots got onto the market. RG now privatised as RORG Ltd (Royal Ordnance Radway Green Ltd) and part of the British Aerospace Industries Defence division also announced that from a quoted date it would not supply any civilian customers and only deal with governments.

The GB NRA then sourced ammunition by competitive tender on the international market for ammunition to its own specifications. 308 Win loaded with the original 155gn Sierra MK (#2155) and which would generate CIP MAPs within the slightly undersize barrels, therefore downloaded against standard SAAMI / CIP specs where test barrels are 0.300/0.3080. This gives around 2,925-2,950 fps MV from such a (tighter) barrel of 30-inch length, but less in custom rifles with standard SAAMI-spec barrels or equivalent factory 308s.

The initial supplier was RUAG under its RWS brand, later Lithuanian company GGG which still supplies the NRA under contract, both 223 and 308, a standard and match grade for each.

Because of the use of the typically 0.3083" dia. 155gn SMK, both makes of 'NRA Match' ammunition can cause over-pressure problems in surviving very-tight barrels and as many of these are found on first generation TR rifles built on adapted [Lee-] Enfield Number 4 rifle actions which are considerably weaker than modern front-locking models such as the RPAs, safety considerations caused a reported ban.

Interestingly as to how this ammunition is tailored to barrel dimensions which are still under standard specs (for whatever reasons as I cannot see a technical need these days but US Palma shooters often use the same specs too), the final year of the RUAG contract saw a year's supply of RWS ammo that turned out to be over-pressure in many TR rifles and there were hard extraction and blown primer issues in warm weather. The unused ammunition was returned to RUAG as not compliant with specification. RUAG / RWS tested it in a standard specification CIP test barrel and found it was still within CIP 308 Win pressure spec so repackaged it as plain 308 Win Match and put it back onto the market some of which ended up in the UK. The UK NRA then had to put a ban on its use in TR rifles as being over-pressure!
 
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This is old, but interesting to me as I have very tight bored K31. .294/.3055". I've got some PRVI 168gr HPBTs that are very tapered. Tapered enough that they seat out about max magazine length before touching the rifling. Now to follow along see if I can find some info for the H380 that I have.
 

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